FLUTE TALK

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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Saltbush Bill
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by Saltbush Bill » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:56 am

I'll be waiting for the results of your tinkering Swedish :thumbup:

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by thecroweater » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:40 pm

What you will get from 2 plates would be about on par with a pot still and thumper. Nothing what so ever wrong with that if that's what you are chasing but a pot still and thumper is going to be easier to get a consistent result. If 3 or 4 plates is giving you a product that is to light that is a direct result of how you are running it and it really is that simple. Maybe your vapour speed (heat) is to low, maybe your reflux is too high, maybe it is a combination of both but the fact is played columns have enough variables to get (with in reason) any product you like without reducing plates to a point where you struggle to keep it stable and consistently loaded. Personally I don't see any good reason to go with less than 4 plates as 3 plates will work fine but you have reduced your variable parameters to achieve a result that was already with your reach in the current configuration.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by Dima » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:52 pm

Happy Belated 8th birthday to "FLUTE TALK" ! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Reading you was tough and time consuming, but in the end it was well worth it!

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by emptyglass » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:41 am

Dima wrote:Happy Belated 8th birthday to "FLUTE TALK" ! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Reading you was tough and time consuming, but in the end it was well worth it!
No one wants to be told to "go read", but for those that do, this thread is still the most informative thread out there.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by 30xs » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:16 pm

emptyglass wrote:
Dima wrote:Happy Belated 8th birthday to "FLUTE TALK" ! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Reading you was tough and time consuming, but in the end it was well worth it!
No one wants to be told to "go read", but for those that do, this thread is still the most informative thread out there.
I’ve read all the way through it, and about to give it another read. Makes one want to go find a piece of 4”, that’s for sure.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by WIski » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:56 pm

A Flute is a bit of a complicated beast as Blue fish has eluded to earlier. The amount of heat, plate count, and the amount of reflux being the variables obviously. It's a dream machine that only time on water can teach operation technique to result. You really can go from pot still to vodka column by manipulating the variables. Not for everyone, but, with the information provided by our Forefather's in this thread it is very doable and worth every sweat bead. YMMV :egeek:

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by Dima » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:31 pm

This is what I've built, 4 plates and packed section. Not all of it fit under ceiling in my basement (still too cold in garage)
Gives me 95% if i run slower but @93-94% i can collect almost a gallon an hour :crazy: :crazy:
Was doing an experiment, hooked up a DCV to output from dephleg to control temperature above dephleg, worked good for some time but then I realized it was a waste of time. One thing i did find useful from experience is temperature of water coming out of my dephleg - in my case 60°C is the magic number to have a steady frow of product and good compression of tails.
P.s. controller is for brewing, I always use SCR which i recently replaced with ssr+pot, just wanted to see temps and only had one plug in basement.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by PDBRadley » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:10 pm

Hello All-

Thanks to everyone for posting your knowledge, successes and failures. Been reading for days by the suggestion of 30xs and others. A lot of questions answered and a lot of info that prompts different questions. For now only one (two part question):

In a valve plate, has anyone used copper roofing nails and what is the proper plate opening ratio?

Thanks-
PDBR

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by emptyglass » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:11 am

IIRC, Sungy used copper leather rivets in a valve plate design that worked well.

Roofing nails could work if you addressed how they seal on the plates
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by MoonBreath » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:35 am

I've been runnin some purty good likker offn two capped plates, just sayn..
It is somewhat equal to pot and thumper, although I think somewhat more 'refined' ifn you will.
The column warm, equalize the plates, start a quick squeeze or fast drip to your desired cut for collection.
The one thing I have never tried is pre-setting my rc to sweet spot Before equilibrium and just lettn it run as a pot still..Hmmm.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by pope » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:17 am

MB have you done both caps and perf plates and have any insight into the difference between the two (flavor-wise or in any other way)?
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by MoonBreath » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:39 am

Yes, but the perfs I have were stacked 4 high.
But I noticed abit more raw flavor with perfs...
Seems like caps do a cleaner, more refined drop.
Take note that not all perfs or caps are the same design and specs..Hole counts, diameters and unique, sometimes even single cap plates are everywhere yet to be deciphered from one another..So lots more to be done.
Me runnin a 2 plate setup, I can add feints or backins to my wash or do a full feints run and really do some good whereas more plates either design are gonna boil down your flavor.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by pope » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:41 am

Good to know! As I finish up my dephleg build and get ready to run plates properly it's helpful to set expectations. Can't wait to try some 2-plate whiskey. Do you run some amount of reflux throughout the run or do you turn it off after heads?
"A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." - Alexander Pope

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by MoonBreath » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:24 pm

Just enough to keep both plates loaded, but not flooded.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by pope » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:46 pm

Sweet thanks!
"A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." - Alexander Pope

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by metalsmith » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:14 pm

I made a smallish 6 inch by 24 inch tall copper still head with 3 plates. Put it on a keg boiler. I had to run it so hard to keep the plates loaded, it smeared all over. Tried backing it down to hit equilibrium, then the plates collapsed. Went back to my 3 inch pot head, and am doing well.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by DetroitDIY » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:43 pm

I've dialed back to 1 or 2 plates (adjustable) on my 4" sieve flute. 314 1/16" holes. I heat up at 5.5 kW, then dial back to 3 to 3.4 kW (just before it want's to puke... 35 minutes on a 12 to 13 gal wash. It will keep the plates nicely charged through the run at that power. The 1 or 2 plate operation keeps my ABV slightly lower, like 89 +- 2 ABV after fores. But honestly it's difficult for me to pull off too dirty of stuff. While it will eventually get below 80 ABV, those jar almost always go into my tails storage for later re-distillation. I keep thinking of Whiskey's being collected below 80 ABV... I just can't do it on a flute.

I also hear so many folks talk highly about the flavor carry over... but it hasn't been outstanding in my experience. The products seem decent... I need to get a bit more age on most of them for a fair judgement. But I recently ran my flute in pot mode (stripping and spirit runs) for the first time other than during shutdown. In pot mode, the flavor kicked the ass of anything I've been pulling off as a flute. Started trying 4 to 5 plate runs, now 1 to 2 for the rums and whiskeys I'm working on... but thinking about running it like a pot more and more.

So for those who feel your flutes are carrying over good flavor, do you feel it's as good as a pot? If so, how are you running things? How many plates? Sieve, bubble or other? What's your rig like? Are you 1 run and done? That IS how I've been doing my flute. I built it so distilling a spirit took 4 hours rather than 8+.

Cheers.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by blizzstill » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:34 pm

Sorry to bring up an old thread.

I see some LM automated still like the iStill or the Genio Still.

Do you guys think we could do the same with a CM (flute) still ? Regulating the coolant flow to the dephlegmator using the vapor temperature above it ?

Goal is get a good ''automated'' NGS spirit run.

Cheers.
Last edited by blizzstill on Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by The Baker » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:01 pm

There's many a good tune played on an old fiddle.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by kpex72 » Sun May 03, 2020 10:38 am

blizzstill wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:34 pm
Sorry to bring up an old thread.

I see some LM automated still like the iStill or the Genio Still.

Do you guys think we could do the same with a CM (flute) still ? Regulating the coolant flow to the dephlegmator using the vapor temperature above it ?

Goal is get a good ''automated'' NGS spirit run.

Cheers.
That is a possibility, but doesn't seem practical to me. I run a controller that holds Dephleg water temps and Condenser water temps to a fixed (independent of each other) temperature to regulate the reflux and take off. It is completely independent of the Vapor temp, and uses solenoids to open and close to adjust water flow. If you are doing it right, the vapor temp should hold rock solid once you get up to temp. In my experience, changing the dephleg temp while holding a fixed vapor temp is how you change your flavor profile.

I wouldn't trust any fully automated systems since they depend solely on temperatures, and that's not a good thing.

Good luck.

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