3" CCVM perforated plate column

VM CM LM Flutes Plate

Moderator: Site Moderator

3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby Wooday » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:00 pm

Last fall I bought some gently used 3" DVW from a member here (copperlover1), and I've finally started my project with it!

20160219_151057.jpg



Here's a crudely rendered image of what the final build will look like.

mockup.jpg
mockup.jpg (7.58 KiB) Viewed 3909 times
User avatar
Wooday
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:14 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby DAD300 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:48 pm

I like it...will be neat to see if the CSST in that placement works.

If you have a keg spear, add it to the bottom of that reducer and let the CSST make the 180 in the reducer
CCVM with Sieve Plates.png


It will get you to a better collection point.

I want to see how the plates work...and like the copper to SS transition.
User avatar
DAD300
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:46 am
Location: Southern U.S.

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby GrassHopper » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:53 pm

Interesting. I don't think I have seen this before? The CCVM is a controlled condenser Vapor Management system and you have added perf plates. Hmmmm.
Just curious, how do you feel the plates will improve this design. Will the vapor flow be too restricted to work properly? Just talking out loud. I. have the stand CCVM with scrubbies in the column.
Carry on

Posted same time as DAD300
User avatar
GrassHopper
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1389
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby DAD300 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:13 pm

I believe the takeoff will work the same as pack column. He'll have as many plates as he adds.

You have scrubbies, I have SPP, he'll have plates and I imagine someone has marbles...I lost mine...
User avatar
DAD300
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:46 am
Location: Southern U.S.

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby Wooday » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:33 pm

GrassHopper wrote:Interesting. I don't think I have seen this before? The CCVM is a controlled condenser Vapor Management system and you have added perf plates. Hmmmm.
Just curious, how do you feel the plates will improve this design. Will the vapor flow be too restricted to work properly? Just talking out loud. I. have the stand CCVM with scrubbies in the column.
Carry on

I'm going for full flavor whisky and brandy in one run, and from what I've seen from other members here, I can get that from 3 to 5 perf plates.

If i want a neutral spirit, I can pull the plate tree and pack it with marbles.
User avatar
Wooday
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:14 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby skow69 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:39 pm

Yeah, OK. Hell, why not? It's certainly easier than making a dephlegmator.
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
I'm not an absinthe snob, I'm The Absinthe Nazi. "NO ABSINTHE FOR YOU!"
User avatar
skow69
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 3230
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:03 am
Location: Cascadia

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:39 pm

DAD300 wrote:I believe the takeoff will work the same as pack column. He'll have as many plates as he adds.

You have scrubbies I have SPP, he'll have plates and I imagine someone has marbles...I lost mine...


I have scrubbies in mine and they work well (and can make azeo from low wines), I need to try marbles ( 'Ya I lost mine also). I can't see why plates would work better, perhaps you could educate me.

I guess that I don't understand the advantage of plates over a tightly packed column.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."
User avatar
RedwoodHillBilly
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 924
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby Wooday » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:54 pm

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:
I guess that I don't understand the advantage of plates over a tightly packed column.

Flute talk -> http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=59216

high proof, high flavor.
User avatar
Wooday
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:14 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby GrassHopper » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:16 pm

I'm impressed. I think you could be on to something here. Hey, I'm open minded. We will look forward to seeing any
advantages. Thanks for sharing and please keep us posted on the outcome.
Carry on mate
User avatar
GrassHopper
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1389
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:20 pm

Wooday wrote:
RedwoodHillBilly wrote:
I guess that I don't understand the advantage of plates over a tightly packed column.

Flute talk -> http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=59216

high proof, high flavor.


It depends, primarily on the reflux ratio. With a CCVM and a packed column, you can easily set the reflux ratio, i.e. number of plates. I'm willing to be proved wrong. I can get both high ABV and flavor in my CCVM, but YMMV as to how you run it.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."
User avatar
RedwoodHillBilly
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 924
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby BayouShine » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:26 pm

I've been pondering this very same thing, except in a 4" flute. In theory, it should work just as well as the CM design. It's on my list for next year's build.
BayouShine
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:20 pm
Location: The Armpit of Louisiana

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby still_stirrin » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:45 pm

BayouShine wrote:I've been pondering this very same thing...It's on my list for next year's build.
Next year???? This year is still young. What's wrong with starting that new build now?

Don't put of till tomorrow what you can do today. That'd be "procrastination". :lolno:
ss
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
What is a Proof & Traille hydrometer: Alcohol-meter
Enzyme info: SebStar
HD Google search info: HD Google-how to
All about mashing grains: Braukaiser
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 6657
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby DAD300 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:55 pm

Four plates will USUALLY not make as high an ABV, as a packed column. But some people claim the are more consistent and repeatable for high flavor products.
User avatar
DAD300
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:46 am
Location: Southern U.S.

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby googe » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:01 pm

Nice work.mate, should work good :thumbup: . I thought some others had done vm over plates?, maybe im mistaken!. Redwoodhillbilly, you don't get the same flavours from packed as you do plates.
Here's to alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all life's problems.
"Home J Simpson"
User avatar
googe
Site Mod
 
Posts: 3664
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: awwstralian in new zealund

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby BayouShine » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:31 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
BayouShine wrote:I've been pondering this very same thing...It's on my list for next year's build.
Next year???? This year is still young. What's wrong with starting that new build now?

Don't put of till tomorrow what you can do today. That'd be "procrastination". :lolno:
ss

That 4" copper ain't cheap!

Seriously though, I can only do my stillin' during the winter. Once the spring hits, I'll be too busy with work to do any new builds. The one plus is that I'll keep my hands off my barrels for a good long time! :mrgreen:
BayouShine
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:20 pm
Location: The Armpit of Louisiana

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby hellbilly007 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:21 pm

I've pondered this same idea. Just figured it's been done before. Not that I can recall seeing any.

Feel free to correct me, I thought one the advantages of plates over packing is that plates can be ran faster while maintaining high abv%. If not, vodka, neutral or GNS distilleries would be using packing instead of plates. Time=money
hellbilly007
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:59 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby snowman_fs » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:37 am

The typical CCVM build is so modular I figured I would eventually get to playing with plates. I already convert my CCVM to "pot" mode when I want.

I would start the hybrid column with only one or two plates on bottom and leave a section of packing below the reflux coil. I worry about flooding the top plate. Just think, the reflux coil can induce 100% reflux.

Hell if we are talking hybrids, I have seen Russian stills with packing on each plate. Keep building, it'll work and be fun to play with.
User avatar
snowman_fs
Novice
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:30 pm

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby LWTCS » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:18 am

DAD300 wrote:Four plates will USUALLY not make as high an ABV, as a packed column. But some people claim the are more consistent and repeatable for high flavor products.



+1.
Congeners get entrained on the plates and continue to re infuse.

For azeo this is an inefficient behavior that can be overcome.
For flavor this is to be exploited.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 10189
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby copperlover1 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:55 am

Wooday. Looks great. Glad to see you getting started keep the pic coming. I can't wait to hear you results from running plates .
copperlover1
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:59 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby Wooday » Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:31 pm

When the tee arrives, the build is on!
Image

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
User avatar
Wooday
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:14 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby emptyglass » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:55 am

Interesting concept.

Maybe its the matchmaker that can bring the flute and column fanbois together :thumbup:

I hope it works as well as it can
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
User avatar
emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1521
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby Wooday » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:56 am

The column is assembled!

20160427_130851.jpg


20160427_130840.jpg


Going to clean it and run a couple washes as a pot still while making the plate tree to see if the 5 feet of 1/4"is CSST can take the heat.
User avatar
Wooday
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:14 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby copperlover1 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:44 pm

Wooday good to see the old pipe turning into something beautiful. So did you ever get your plates made?
copperlover1
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:59 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby Wooday » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:22 am

copperlover1 wrote:Wooday good to see the old pipe turning into something beautiful. So did you ever get your plates made?


Moving there slowly but surely.

Trying to choose between the tried'n'true perf plates spending more money on copper and drill bits, or taking Googe's work with flap plates and running with it, spending more time tweaking the holes to optimize the design.

My budget is maxed out for the time being, so it will take time to save up for sight glasses and hardware for the plate tree.
User avatar
Wooday
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:14 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby copperlover1 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:27 am

Wooday I hear you brother. So many choices and so few dollars. I will keep looking in at the post to see how you make out. Can't wait to see.
copperlover1
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:59 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby Wooday » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:50 am

I was able to cut out enough plates to make a two 5-plate trees; one with perf plates and one with flaps.

I have these -->http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23488&catid=720 in 2.21" ordered for my flaps. Should have the tree finished and installed by the end of Friday this week. If there's enough time I'll punch my perf plates (yes, punched, not drilled) and start soldering some down-comers for that.


I can't wait up for sight glasses. I know it's stupid, but I'm going to try to run this by feel.
User avatar
Wooday
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:14 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby raketemensch » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:53 pm

Wooday wrote:I can't wait up for sight glasses. I know it's stupid, but I'm going to try to run this by feel.


Common wisdom is that you need the glass... Having run a flute quite a bit, I'm not convinced they're 100% necessary. I would just:

1) get up to boil with the dephleg on a little bit until you get to your first drops
2) collect your foreshots at maybe 2-3 drops/second. This draws off your fores and gives the plates time to stack, and for your fractions to separate
3) figure out the best takeoff rate for your still. I still do a barely twisted stream

That's pretty much it. When you hit tails you'll know, as things will slow down and your ABV will drop like a rock.
User avatar
raketemensch
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1994
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Location: Tralfamadore

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby amber » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:44 pm

Hi Wooday, are there any updates for this still? Did you finish the plated element of it yet?

I have a good length of 4" copper that I am entering into the research and planning for what to do with it.
My initial ponderings are towards a still similar to these plans, but with the plated section being removable and swappable with a section of packing, or just with the plate tree being removable like your plans, thus switching between a standard ccvm reflux for neutral and a ccvm plated for whiskey and the likes- and keep the 2" pot still for rum and stripping... But, I am new to all this and don't know how the CCVM would work with plates. Can't seem to find much else out there about this.
amber
Novice
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:23 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby Wooday » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:13 am

amber wrote:Hi Wooday, are there any updates for this still? Did you finish the plated element of it yet?

I have a good length of 4" copper that I am entering into the research and planning for what to do with it.
My initial ponderings are towards a still similar to these plans, but with the plated section being removable and swappable with a section of packing, or just with the plate tree being removable like your plans, thus switching between a standard ccvm reflux for neutral and a ccvm plated for whiskey and the likes- and keep the 2" pot still for rum and stripping... But, I am new to all this and don't know how the CCVM would work with plates. Can't seem to find much else out there about this.


No updates. Just bought a house so I need to do some renovating before I run anything.

I'm making the plate diameter a little smaller and wrapping with extra thick PTFE thread tape to seal the edges. no idea if it will work, but the thin sheet I used deformed too much with a tight fit.
User avatar
Wooday
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:14 am

Re: 3" CCVM perforated plate column

Postby bronctoad » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:18 pm

bump.. contemplating a 2 plate with packed section for neutral.if making it with a dads style vm condenser, could that eliminate the need for a defleg on a plated column?? ie. replace the defleg with the vm head??

bronctoad
User avatar
bronctoad
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:16 pm

Next

Return to Column Builds



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests