4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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DetroitDIY
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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:14 pm

Cleaned the (very nasty) evaporator core I had trash picked the other day. Spent a little while soldering up some I/Os that will interface to my cooling system today. Definitely not amongst the prettier work I’ve done, but the order of the day was to get it done.

First image is the side of the evaporator core after I cut off the former inputs and outputs. This core has one input of ½” and two outputs of something less than 3/8”. The core is 21” wide by 17” tall, and three serpentine rows of coolant lines through some 2 ¼” thickness of the cooling fins.

The second image is the outlet runner collection I soldered up. “Y”ed (2) 3/8”copper lines into a ½” outlet. And the third image has the two after soldering them together.

The last two images are after adding in the inlet fittings and a few valves. One valve to control the coolant into the evaporator core, and the other valve to open the bypass which will release the water directly to the reservoir without going through the evap core. I do have a 3 way valve that I could have, probably should have used here, but I hadn’t thought through the whole system before cutting and soldering.

Later this weekend I’ll add back in the fan, fan shroud, and fabricate up a bit of structure around it.
Attachments
Evaporator Core with Cut Refrigerant Lines
Evaporator Core with Cut Refrigerant Lines
Outlet Runners
Outlet Runners
Core and Outlet Side Assembled
Core and Outlet Side Assembled
Coolant Loop in Bypass
Coolant Loop in Bypass
Coolant Loop in Flow-Through
Coolant Loop in Flow-Through

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:14 pm

Just a few quick picks for today. Connected it to my hose to test for leaks and the flow. Granted, the pressure from the city is quite high (35-40 psi??), but I run my coolant loop with a Liberty 260 pump which flows up to 17 gpm and provides a head up to 25'. Anyway, I was pretty happy with the trial. Tiny leak at one of the ball valves which a little tightening of nut on it solved.

First image is just in the Evaporator Flowthrough mode, Second is of the Evaporator Bypass mode (with a little bit of residual flow still draining from the evap loop), and the last photo is with both wide open to allow parallel Flowthrough and Bypass.

Attaching the fan and get he system fully set up is next.

Hmmm.... just thinking that I'm adding all of this into a "Column Build" thread. May need to migrate to a better location for these tangents to my system. :oops:
Attachments
Flowthrough
Flowthrough
Bypass
Bypass
Both
Both

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by BrierPatch » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:26 pm

Hey, DetroitDIY -

I love what you're doing with the evaporator. I am currently in the process of a modular boka build and am designing in a closed-loop cooling system. I already have a brand new automotive radiator, a brand new automotive fuel tank (about 20 gallons?) and a brand new fuel pump for the tank. (Let's just say that it's good to have a friend that keeps his eye on what's going into the scrap bin!) The fuel tank will be the highest point of the system and open to the atmosphere (suspended from the rafters) and the radiator (with fan/shroud attached) will hang immediately below the tank. The fuel pump to supply coolant (water) to my shotgun deflag and also to my product liebig. The returns will each have an individual gate valve allowing me to control the flow/temperature of each. The fuel tank will be the highest point of the system (suspended from the rafters) and the radiator (with fan) will hang immediately below the tank.

In addition to the two condenser returns, There is also an in-tank "fuel return" which returns excessive volume of coolant not consumed by the deflag and liebig back into the tank. The process of pressurizing the water via the pump will raise the temperature of the water a bit (exactly how much is yet to be determined).

Where I'm stuck (and will likely need some experimentation to figure out) is how to configure my returns:
Option A:
  • Deflag --> Radiator --> Tank
  • Liebig --> Radiator --> Tank
  • Pump Return --> Tank
The Deflag and Liebig will have the highest temperature rise, so it makes sense to attack the highest temperature water.

Option B:
  • Deflag --> Radiator --> Tank
  • Liebig --> Radiator --> Tank
  • Pump Return --> Radiator --> Tank
Will the higher pressure and volume of the Pump Return prevent proper flow of the coolant from the Deflag and Liebig?

Option C:
  • Deflag --> Tank
  • Liebig --> Tank
  • Pump Return --> Radiator --> Tank
As the flow of the Pump Return will be the highest, would moving the most volume through the radiator compensate for the lower flow of the Deflag (120*?) and Liebig (100*?) returning directly to the tank?

I figure that I'll need to do some experimentation to figure out what works best, but am curious to hear how your system is set-up as a point of reference.

I'm also in the 'burbs of Detroit... Your build is beautiful , BTW!

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:04 pm

Hey there Briarpatch, good to meet another SE Michigander.

I would think your first option is preferable, and add a valve onto your pump return so you can choke the path of least resistance. Cooling the pump return in your radiator would be the least effective as you should have the least temperature difference there. Cooling the deflag/liebig return will be more effective and thus a better use of your radiator. I'm including a bypass at the radiator so that I might conltrol the cooling vs. the heat input. I think overall, you want to approach steady state, but can't really as the temp of your distillate will rise over time and thus you'll want more cooling power over time. Thus, a bypass for the evaporator seems like it may be an option if you have very effective cooling, and you could choke the bypass bit by bit as your distillate temp rises and you need more cooling performance to maintain equilibrium. Not speaking from experience, just thinking about it.

I think you move to less effective with option B, although your radiator will provide some head loss to your flow and thus help to bias a bit more flow through the deflag/liebig, but still not as much as I presume those two add more pressure drop than your return. And to least effective in option C. That will leave you (or at least me with my system) really wanting more cooling power, but wanting to move all my coolant through the condenser to knock down the distillate, but unhappy with it's ability to knock it down as that stream is just heating up. Not my preference.

Also, I'm surprised a fuel pump is that capable. As you see from my comments, I'm running a pump capable of 17 gpm (over 1000 gallons per hour), albeit with no head loss. Don't know what I'm actually getting, as I'm sure I have plenty of pressure drop through my system, but lets just say I still have a lot of apparent thrust for the exit flow as the lines return into my reservoir.

If you're going to be experimenting, just keep flexibility and reconfigurability in mind.

Good luck.

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:33 pm

Completed the flute's first rum wash. The wash was a nightmare, for reasons I won't bore you with. But, I ran it on 3 plates. The rig runs quickly, much quicker than the time I used to spend on double distilling rum through a pot still. That's a blessing... as it was one of the main reasons I embarked on this whole second build... Needed a still that wouldn't take all weekend to run. This one is doing nicely.

I rigged up the cooling system. Not my final layout, but I wanted it to keep my system running more stable, so I just suspended it and stuck a fan one foot in front of it. Not as efficient as it will be, but it definitely made a difference. I've included one photo of it running, very nice laminar flow coming out after running through the evaporator (though I understand a bit of turbulent, shower head, raining into my reservoir would offer a touch more cooling opportunity... don't think I'll need it once I have a proper fan with a shroud around the system).

I had run the evaporator a bit off the garden hose, but there was clearly a lot more oily stuff in it. It emptied into my water reservoir over the course of the run and everything it touched had a nasty, oily film. Ugly to clean up, but the job is done now.

I put 13 gallons into my 15.5 boiler. As I was running it, I noticed it starting to puke in the first plate. I shut it down, siphoned off 1.5 gallons back onto the lees from the rum fermenter (a good thing, as I needed something hot in there to kill off the infection that I let run wild). I also dropped in about 1 teaspoon of oil as a surfactant. Then I sealed the boiler back up, connected the hose to the CIP for a brief moment to wash down the puke (added ~1 liter water to the boiler), and fired it back up again. Not sure which one did the trick, but I did not have another puke up. :mrgreen:

I collected lots of data, though not all data points at all times, and the collection intervals were sporadic. Anyways, I've attached the plots of it below. It says it's Purgirum, but that's not really how it ended up. I bastardized it a lot along the way. :roll:

You may recall from previous posts, but I have a gate valve for my "fine" coolant control to the dephleg (stop laughing... it's working so far... I thought a needle valve would restrict too much... maybe a later improvement for my rig). The gate has something like 5 turns to close it, but the operation is not linear per degree revolution, as it's shutting off a round hole with a "round" gate, so it looks like a crescent moon as it's approaching fully closed. One revolution of the handle at half open restricts the flow much more than one revolution at nearly closed. So there is some fine controlability. Anyways, I'm capturing the dephleg gate position as degrees of the handle rotation away from fully closed. 0 degrees is fully closed. 360 degrees is one complete handle turn away from fully closed (which is still reasonably choked, but let's a ton of cooling capability through). I don't really get much in the way of vapor passing through the dephleg until I'm about 90 degrees from fully closed... so the needle valve is probably the right call... some day.

Anyways, the plot shows the Dephleg Gate Valve position, the Dephleg Temp above the dephleg, the Parrot Temp (for ABV measurement adjustment), the ABV measured (unadjusted), the Condenser Return Temp (after the dephleg and product condensers are joined, but before they enter the evaporator), and the Resevoir Temp. All of those data use the left axis scaled 0-200. The volume of distillate collected is not shown (I cropped it as it just makes all the other data harder to read). The Heater Power is the only other data included. That is in kW and is using the right axis scaled 0-6.

The data shows 2:30 of run time, but I did not include the heat up / puke / siphon / rinse time in this chart, so this wash was already pretty hot. Total run time, had I not had to fix the puke should have been about 3:00 or 3:15... plus clean up.

The dephleg temp is analog and I fear it's not calibrated correctly yet. The condenser return temp is via a fermenter temp sticker and should have a decent margin of error. The ABV is as read off the parrot, is not corrected for the temp and of course is reading a smeared alcohol amount. All data sets were collected at the same time... within 30 seconds or so... there were a lot of bits to collect.

Kind of interesting to me. I hope to learn more from the data as I learn my system more and can compare runs to one another. A few things I note from this data:

1) The evaporator is knocking the temperature down something like 9-10 degrees. That's not exactly true, as I'm considering the reservoir temp as the post evap temp, but the reservoir is a big blend. When I'm finished with the coolant fan and shroud, I'll add a fermenter sticker onto the outlet to capture more direct comparisons and help understand the efficiency of the evaporator.

2) The parrot temp wasn't getting much over 80, but still some alcohol vapor was escaping after the product condenser thought the whole run. You can see this in the third image. This makes me think that the coolant was cold enough, but that the vapor may be flowing through the condenser to fast for all of it to get knocked down. I have (5) 1/2" tubes inside a 2" shotgun. I'm thinking that I may need to add some turbulators inside the vapor paths of the shotgun to mix it up a bit. I added a long helix of copper wire into my old pot still liebig condenser and that made a big difference. Going to try the same for all 5 tubes of my shotgun before my next run. I think I could run my system faster, were it not for this uncondensed vapor getting through.

All said and done, I struggled with my wash quite a bit, but comparing the alcohol collected from this run to the alcohol collected from my very first pot still stripping run, I did worse this time, but not as bad as I had feared. Better fermentation and knocking down all that vapor into collected product should help me improve my collection next time...which is fermenting away as I type this. :wink:

The other thing I just noted is that off the pot still (mind you I was a novice on that pot, and I'm a novice on this flute) I was saving 30-55% of what I collected during my spirit run. On this flute run I ended up saving ~65% of what I collected. Not a bad yield, and a very quick run time.

Thanks to all of you who gave me advice along the way, and to the veterans who posted lot's before me to help me be successful in this build. I wouldn't have done it without you.
Attachments
Laminar Flow Out Evap
Laminar Flow Out Evap
Data from Rum Run
Data from Rum Run
Vapor Escaping from Product Condenser
Vapor Escaping from Product Condenser

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by Big Stogie » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:03 am

Looks great! where did you find your core?
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Flute Journey viewtopic.php?f=17&t=69736

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:07 pm

Trash bin. Saw 3 AC units in a dumpster. Grabbed the one with the largest diameter lines, let the rest go. Sorry Stogie... had I known you wanted one, I could have grabbed one for you. I'll keep an eye out in that dumpster. Also came across some 5 feet of 2' Cu pipe and assorted fittings. Just sitting on it now with no plans.

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by Big Stogie » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:22 pm

Thanks let me know I ran mine for the first time yesterday and it’s apparent I need something drum got hot
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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:16 pm

Ran a second rum wash a couple weeks back, and now ran a UJ(not so S)M wash this afternoon. I'm slowly learning how to run my system, the data collection and plotting is helping some. But I have a question for the experienced sieve plate flute operators out there. My plates are losing their charge a ways into the run to where they appear to have a thin layer of liquid on them and they're just simmering. The simmering level is below the downcomers. I'm thinking that the simmering is not doing much for my separation, and that I'm effectively in pot still mode at that time. I am able to open the dephleg wide and re-stack the plates somewhat... good bubbles on top two plates, but pretty tame on the bottom of 3 plates.

So my question... if I don't want to shut off flow to re-stack, but wanted a more finesse solution, what should I be doing? I'm thinking increase the flow to the dephleg so I get a bit more knock down and reflux... or my system may just be letting me know that it's low on alcohol and getting ready for me to shut it down. Appreciate your thoughts.

Here is an image of a plate "just simmering".
UJSM Poor Charge.jpg
And here is the data from my run. The photo of the simmering plate was taken about was I believe about time 3:15 - 3:30 when the ABV it dropping to the 70-60 range. I shut down the dephleg all together and ran it as a pot down to 10 ABV at the end. The spike in the dephleg angle where it goes off the page (and a higher ABV follows) is when I opened up the dephleg wide during the run to re-stack the plates.
UJSM1 Data.PNG

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:44 pm

Just a couple of short posts on how I solved the issue of my vapor not being knocked down by my shotgun product condenser...

I recalled I had suffered the same problem with the leibig on my pot still, and reproduced the solution that worked for me back then. Worked like a charm this time as well!

Started with some simple 14 AWG wire. Stripped it to just the copper. A simple task.
Condenser Barrel Wire.jpg
Next grabbed my longest spade bit, just a bit shorter than the condenser pipe lengths in my shotgun, and popped it in my drill. Then simply bent one end of a long strand of the bare copper onto the tip of the spade bit. Crimped it with a pliers to make sure it would stay on. Grabbed a glove to hold the wire against the bit. Turned the bit reasonably slowly (make sure your drill is set t turn in the correct direction).
Condenser Barrel Spring to be.jpg
And wound a loose spring. I did not want the spring helix to be too tight, as I wanted to create spaces between the helix inside the condenser to promote more turbulence in the vapor flow and more contact surface area.
Condenser Barrel Spring.jpg
I slipped the spring off the bit and then pulled the helix just a little wider so that the loose spring ran pretty much the full length of my condenser pipes. This by hand portion also introduced some irregularities, which again should be good for promoting the turbulence. I was also slightly "unwinding" the helix as I pulled on it to increase the diameter. Did this to achieve a diameter just narrower than the tube ID. Straightened out the spring as best I could (into a straight axis), and then slid the spring inside the tube while rotating it and being careful not the get it snagged inside and bunched up.
Condenser Barrel Turbulator.jpg

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:46 pm

Having made 5 such springs, I slipped them all into the condenser. Here are the before (where I could see light passing through the condenser barrels) and after (where the light had been obscured) photos of the springs inserted.
Condenser Barrels.jpg
Condenser Barrels w Turbulators.jpg
Worked excellent. No problems with the vapor knock down on either of my 2 runs since adding these in.

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by EziTasting » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:46 am

Love your work!

My solution isn’t as elegant as that, I have sacrificed one of my SS scrubbers and pulled them in like you did your spring... well, somewhat like your springs... wish I had thought of your solution! :thumbup:
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EZ

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:33 pm

I ran two different washes on this today, a rum and a UJSM. Been learning this system yet, but I'm getting the hang of how to run the rum, different set points, different times to expect. I'm only on my second UJSM wash, and it clearly runs a bit different for me, and I clearly have yet to get a grip on it. I was all over the place with my gate valve and the power input.

But one of the common things on how I've been running both, has been that I'm getting rather high ABVs off the still. Not something I really want for these types of washes. The rum washes are running generally 90-70 ABV, and then dropped off pretty quick in all but one run (where I had added a decent amount of feints in... that had lots of tails). With the UJSM, I'm pulling off lots in the low 90s, high 80s, with a little bit below that before the still is ready to be shut down.

Is this right for a flute? I know they produce higher ABV with more flavor carry through, but this seems quite high, and I'm afraid I may be stripping good flavors out. I can't quite figure out how to run at a lower ABV without crashing the plates. I've been running 3 plates for pretty much all my runs.

Any thoughts? What ABVs are other sieve plate flute operators getting? If you're able to run things much lower, can you describe how?

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DSM Loki » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:39 pm

I've only done a handful of runs on my flute, but with 4 plates I have to run little to no water through the dephleg to get below 90 abv. I haven't been disappointed with the flavor carry over yet though

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by Dima » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:49 pm

Beautiful built! that plumbing work is crazy :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:54 pm

Well, I've been aware of one of my design flaws and avoiding the issue, but now that this early cold snap has come down I can't ignore it any longer.

There are 3 spots where I did not design my coolant loop to drain well:
1) Bottom of the dephleg... the inlet is 1/2" above the bottom plate of it. Lots of room for trapped standing water.
2) A cute little (errr stupid little) loop in the rigid plumbing the diverts of to the bottom of my PC. I had correctly thought through the drain at the bottom of my PC by the time I was building that, but then wasn't thinking when I plumbed in all the rigid connections off the back end.
3) A few rows of refrigerant tubing in my radiator heat exchanger.

The still is in my workshop. Well insulated, but normally unheated. I'm out here now running the wood stove to add a little head so the trapped water bits don't freeze and really screw me up, but clearly I'll have to properly remedy the design flaws.

I'll be moving the dephleg port down to the bottom to drain properly with gravity.
I'll be replacing the rigid plumbing off the back end with something more flexible... possibly PEX, or possibly metal braided drain lines. This is for several reasons. One to get rid of the stupid water trap that I've forced into my rigid lines. Two as I need to replace my "fine" water controlling gate valve with a proper needle valve. And three, because I want more adjustability in my modular build, and the rigid lines don't allow for flexibility in that portion. Just short sided on my part.
And I'll be adding in a small drain off the low spot in my evaporator core that I'll just have to open to drain in the winter when I'm not running things for a few days. I would love to plumb in a passive drain to that area, but am afraid that if I alter the flow, I'll just mess up the internal pressures during operation and harm it's cooling efficiency.

Sorry, no pictures this time... I'll post some when I'm actually making the improvements so you can see my mistake and the remedy.

Happy stilling!
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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sat May 25, 2019 6:01 am

Made the changes I noted above.

I did use PEX. Didn't wan't to constrict the flow so I used 3/4" PEX which gave a similar ID to the 1/2" Cu (that doesn't really make sense to me, so I may have something wrong there... but I am matching the IDs). Given the modularity of my still, I am running as many as 5 plates plus a packed section (6 plates plus a packed section where I've placed the still is just too tight with the pulley system I've rigged up to support the column when changing things about) down to 1 plate only (which is what I'm running at this very moment). With all this height variation, and going to the same pump/reservoir arrangement, I've found that the 3/4" PEX are far too stiff for my system. So, while I've seen others use the 1/2" PEX, it turns out for me they were a poor choice.

So I ended up reverting back to a hose fitting to run (very flexible) stainless wrapped washing machine lines to and from everything. But rather than cut off all the PEX and pull the torch out to unsweat the PEX fittings, I just trimmed the PEX to 8" and then crimped in the hose fitting... so the coolant lines go as follows:

1/2" Cu stub form PC (to) 1/2" x 3/4" Cu fitting reducer (to) 3/4" SS tri-clamps (back to) 3/4" x 1/2" Cu fitting reducer (back to) 1/2" Cu pipe (to) 1/2" x 3/4" Cu coupling reducer (to) 3/4" Br Sweat x PEX crimp (to) 3/4" PEX (to) 3/4" Br PEX crimp x 1/2" NPT (to) 1/2" Cu NPT x GHT (to) SS braided washing machine lines (to) Pump
Coolant Plumbing Evolution
Coolant Plumbing Evolution
Ugh! Design by evolution, despite my best planning. This is expensive and leads me with many opportunities for leaks. Don't do as I have done here!

The 3/4" SS tri-clamps are great for easy disconnect and axial rotation for different coolant I/O take off directions as I may need them (and I've found I have needed them). However they don't seal as good as I would like, so I've taken to winding multiple rounds of PTFE tape around the gaskets to pack them out so I have something to crush down and seal as I tighten them... and they still seem to leak when I adjust them... so kind of a PITA... a mixed blessing.

The SS braided washing machine lines are great for their flexibility and toughness, but their ID is tiny, so all my efforts to maintain a nice 1/2" ID are for naught once I stick those things on it. Fortunately, I'm running a very capable pump (Liberty 260 sump, up to 1400 gph, but all my reductions, bends, baffles, obstructions, and column height should knock that down some) so it compensates for my silly-ness.

Moving the depleg port down was a good move for self draining, a no brainer upgrade. Drain valve in my coolant cooling system was good too.

This spring I build a proper housing for my coolant cooling system core (converted AC system), fixtured the plastic shroud that couples it to the fan, installed the fan, and wired it all up and suspended the whole mess from a shelf to save a bit of space. Turn key operation now which is nice. I sorted through the 6 wires of the motor and put in a four speed controller which is what it seemed to want from the motor wiring diagram, but all speeds sound similar and I haven't tried to measure the air flow or quantify the effectiveness of the cooling between the different speeds yet... probably never will.
Coolant Cooling Housing
Coolant Cooling Housing
Coolant Cooling Housing
Coolant Cooling Housing
Fan in Shroud
Fan in Shroud
Electrical
Electrical
I'm adding on some garden hoses to the OD of the 1/2" Cu output from the coolant cooling system to drop them close to the coolant reservoir surface to avoid a big splash. I'll get a little less free air cooling with this, but I'm hoping the AC coolant core will compensate sufficiently.

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sat May 25, 2019 6:58 am

A few other mods...

Here's the pulley system. This works quite nicely for me to support the column mass when changing sections in/out. I retain the loose ends with one of those boat tie thingies (you can see if on my shelving)... don't know the right name but it works well for quick, one handed adjustments. The rope is a polymer, so I used two pulleys above to keep it out of contact with the hot column. The one improvement I may add is to make a hanger point for the top of the column that keeps it balanced when disconnecting the dephleg from the top of the column. That should allow me to move it without much risk of swinging and banging when I'm changing things over.
Pulley Support
Pulley Support
Here's a change to the coolant control I made. My big old gate valve for fine volumetric control of the dephleg... sucked. Opening was not proportional to handle turn. Much greater rate of opening change than I could control well. Lash in handle turn was excessive. So I replumbed it to include a needle valve, and to flexibly connect to the condensers via the washer lines. I'm pretty happy with this so far. Just need to add a dial marker around my needle valve dial to be able to produce consistent position settnigs.
New Coolant Controls
New Coolant Controls
Next, what I thought was a pretty good improvement idea, until my run I'm doing right now...

I got all into this gravity drain of my system with the CIP feature at the top of the column loop (that CIP bit I love). So, among the other passive drain solutions, I wanted my cups to automatically drain. So I drilled a 3/64" hole into the bottom of each cup.
Dumb Ass Drain Hole
Dumb Ass Drain Hole
This had been working fine this Spring because, I had been running things pretty hard, because, I was running some neutral. Now I'm trying to run all this apple-sugar wash, and I ran it first with 4 plates, hard-ish, and I got pretty much neutral. Dumb ass.

Met with another stiller this past week. I mentioned that I was getting to pure, and was going to knock it down to one plate for my next apple-sugar wash run. He sampled a few of the jars I had just collected but not yet made my cuts on, and suggested that I was running it too hard... lower the team, lower the cooling, pull over a lower ABV (that's my goal here, but don't want to double distill at pot still speeds).

So, I'm running that right now, but at these lower powers, It's harder to keep my one plate flooded, and this damn hole in the bottom of my cup is killing me. So I'm running it at higher power that I set out to, and once this run is done I'll be soldering that hole back shut. This is all exacerbated because I'm running with 3/4" risers on my downcomers (for a deeper fluid bed), but that's preventing the distillate from flooding over as easy and keeping the cup filled.

Dumb ass! Everything I saw on HD said don't do it, but I had to be smarter. Now I know why not to have done it. I may try changing out the riser height on my downcomer and seeing if that does the trick better on my next run before I colder the hole up, we'll see. Good news is, I'm pulling off at 87-ish rather than my usual 93-ish ABV... baby steps.
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Canuckwoods
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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by Canuckwoods » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:44 am

DetroitDIY wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:42 pm
Cut 4” pipe, soldered ferrules, and cleaning up the pipe on the lathe.
Please Please Please do not wear gloves for work likeImage this a good friend of mine just had his fingers torn out of his hand along with his tendons yes they got the fingers back on but there was some flesh embedded that has started to rot causing gangrene and it looks like he will lose his hand. Wearing gloves is a very dangerous practice around any machine. Please read https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/f ... in-my-shop

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by Danespirit » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:54 am

DetroitDIY wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:15 am
Thanks Crazy Diamond. By flooded do you mean that there's entertainment from that plat to the one above?
Entrainment is the state you get when you overpower the still and liquid is splashing on the underside of the above plate, thus lowering efficiency on said plate.
Flooding is overpowering the column in a way that fills it with liquid partly or full. It can easily happen on packed columns and you'll hear a gurgling sound from the column.
Looks like you've got plenty of power to run that rig.
I've solved the heat problem on my controller with som heatsink paste and a (for the output) enormous heatsink.
Gets about lukewarm when running full power. viewtopic.php?f=85&t=58011#p7352473
By having the heatsink placed outside and somewhat over-dimensioned I spared the use of a fan.
You should be able to apply the solution to your SSR unit too.

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:21 am

Thanks Canuckwoods. Honestly I've had my share of training and knew better. But clearly it's good to get the reminder.

And thanks for the clarification Danespirit. Honestly I'm surprised that entrainment would have much negative effect on efficiency. I guess if it's actually a substantial amount of splashing, but if/when I suffer from entrainment, it's more a nature of a crap ton of bubbles on top of the liquid layer that may get up to the next plate. In what I experience, I'm thinking the effect is small to negligible.

I do have a heat sink and thermal grease bonding my SSR to the sink, but need the little muffin fan as mine is all packaged in the ammo box. I like that self contained system as I do a good amount of making dust where I run the still (on separate days) and I want to keep the dust out of all that, and the box it a little tidier and a bit more robust with all the gear inside. I just have to remember to open the lid when I'm running it else it just makes it into a little oven inside teh ammo box. So far so good.

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by RandyMarshCT » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:31 pm

Detriot, this thread is excellent! Beautiful work!
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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by DetroitDIY » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:57 pm

Glad you like it Randy. Hope it's of some use to you and others. Are you working on a build?

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Re: 4th Triangle Flute Design & Build

Post by RandyMarshCT » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:34 am

No, I have too many rigs to justify building another just yet. Once I get my hands on the perfect boiler, I do plan on building a 6" column, however.
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