CCVM Build - First Setup

[QuietNoWhere]

I have brewed beer for about a decade and have been making wine for a couple of years. I have been interested in stills and distilling for several years now in both fuel and drinking applications, and am ready to take the next step. I have gone through the New Distiller Reading Lounge and Novice Distillers boards several times in addition to hours of ‘hop around’ reading where I search topics or follow links in various threads. It took me a while, but the terminology, differences in still types, and distillation theory finally coalesced into a basic understanding. (I think - I’ll know more after I make my first run!)

My goal is to have a modular system I can use as both a reflux column and a pot still, and will break down into storable pieces. After multiple changes, adjustments, drawings, consideration, and pricing, I have settled on a modular CCVM electric setup. I have built several electric setups for beer and sous-vide, so wiring a controller should not be a problem. I am attaching a drawing with notes on the still I am planning to build. It is modeled after Dad300 and HoundDog’s designs. I am aware of Dad300’s statement that a 2” version of this still is not as linear as the 3” version. I also understand that I will have a learning curve with both distilling in general and this design in particular.

I am in town and so am stuck in my basement. The hard distance from the floor to ceiling in the area where there is a 240v plug is 102.5 inches. I would like to put a bottom drain in the keg/boiler, so the total height of the still will be about 93 inches. This will leave me about 10” of room to adjust the reflux condenser. I am still debating between copper mesh and lava rock as packing. I am planning to do Birdwatcher’s Sugar Wash and Uncle Jesse’s Simple Sour Mash as my first/training recipes.

My questions are simple:

• Do I have any glaring errors in this design?
  Any thoughts/suggestions/input?

Larger Image link: https://ibb.co/kwGswQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Go lava rock. Just as efficient as spp, but cheap and light. I will never use anything else.

[Kegg_jam]

I didn't read all the notes but that looks almost exactly like mine. Except I went with a shotgun product condenser.

[DAD300]

Perfect...
You can have enough copper without the copper pipe/flange hassle. Buy SS spools and add a wad of copper mesh at the top under takeoff. Makes it very easy to clean.

[GrassHopper]

You got the green light from Dad, so go fer it. Looks like mine except for the condensor ( I have a liebig), and the height. I personally don't think you need that much height to accomplish good results. I easily pull 95% ABV from 35% low wines with just 30" of 2" packed column with copper scrubbies. But, hey ladders are cool. Nice drawing by the way. Keep us posted.

[Bvritr]

Looks just about like mine that im working on right now. I ended up with a 36in copper extension to a SS T and elbow to a shotgun. I was reading glass marbles were a good cheap packing option also.

[QuietNoWhere]

Thanks to everyone who commented. I figured if there were any major problems, someone would point them out!

Perfect...
You can have enough copper without the copper pipe/flange hassle. Buy SS spools and add a wad of copper mesh at the top under takeoff. Makes it very easy to clean.

So tuck the copper mesh on top of the packing right below the T? Interesting...

Go lava rock. Just as efficient as spp, but cheap and light. I will never use anything else.

Thanks - I found your link to Amazon - I'll get that ordered.

... I personally don't think you need that much height to accomplish good results. I easily pull 95% ABV from 35% low wines with just 30" of 2" packed column with copper scrubbies. But, hey ladders are cool. Nice drawing by the way. Keep us posted.

Thanks for this input. Dropping the height even six inches would make the whole thing easier to handle and run. Switching from 2 26" sections to 3 16" sections would give me section heights that can easily use the Reflectix insulation left over from my beer setup. It would also let me run some test differences between 30 and 40" of packing. I have spent hours reading through column height threads trying to get a grasp on how much speed/quality the greater height gains for you. The answer seems to be 'it depends'. I guess if I want hard numbers, I'll have make up a couple of variations and run some tests.

I see where you say 16 hours is a normal run time for a 12 gallon charge - is this still an accurate number?

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Thanks to everyone who commented. I figured if there were any major problems, someone would point them out!

Perfect...
You can have enough copper without the copper pipe/flange hassle. Buy SS spools and add a wad of copper mesh at the top under takeoff. Makes it very easy to clean.

So tuck the copper mesh on top of the packing right below the T? Interesting...

A copper scrubbie anywhere in the column is all that you need, but at the top or bottom makes it easier to remove and clean.

Go lava rock. Just as efficient as spp, but cheap and light. I will never use anything else.

SS scrubbies work just fine also.

Thanks - I found your link to Amazon - I'll get that ordered.

... I personally don't think you need that much height to accomplish good results. I easily pull 95% ABV from 35% low wines with just 30" of 2" packed column with copper scrubbies. But, hey ladders are cool. Nice drawing by the way. Keep us posted.

Thanks for this input. Dropping the height even six inches would make the whole thing easier to handle and run. Switching from 2 26" sections to 3 16" sections would give me section heights that can easily use the Reflectix insulation left over from my beer setup. It would also let me run some test differences between 30 and 40" of packing. I have spent hours reading through column height threads trying to get a grasp on how much speed/quality the greater height gains for you. The answer seems to be 'it depends'. I guess if I want hard numbers, I'll have make up a couple of variations and run some tests.

I see where you say 16 hours is a normal run time for a 12 gallon charge - is this still an accurate number?

3 Hrs or so were normal for me when I ran my CCVM with that size sugar wash.

[QuietNoWhere]

3 Hrs or so were normal for me when I ran my CCVM with that size sugar wash.

Was that speed out of your old 2" or the really pretty stainless 3" I see a few pictures of?

[RedwoodHillBilly]

3 Hrs or so were normal for me when I ran my CCVM with that size sugar wash.

Was that speed out of your old 2" or the really pretty stainless 3" I see a few pictures of?

The 3 hrs or so that I remember were for the 3" CCVM from heatup to shutdown. My old 2" was SS as well. Thanks for the "pretty stainless 3"

I don't run the ccvm much any more, as I'm into whiskey, but it worked very well for neutral.

[QuietNoWhere]

After considering all of the input and the cost, I decided the 3" take-off rate was worth the extra expense. Here is an updated drawing of the plans. I have a roll of copper mesh to fill the copper requirements. The parts are on their way, so hopefully this will work well.

Larger image: https://ibb.co/iYkuFk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[piperdave]

You may need a 2 inch to 3 inch reducer to clamp to the keg.

[kimbodious]

Your diagram shows 3 sections of 18" spool plus a tee (~10") plus a shorter piece of spool (~12") for the RC; looks to be 6'4. I didn't think a 3" column needed as much height as say a 2" column?

[QuietNoWhere]

Your diagram shows 3 sections of 18" spool plus a tee (~10") plus a shorter piece of spool (~12") for the RC; looks to be 6'4. I didn't think a 3" column needed as much height as say a 2" column?

This is all a learning experiment for me, so I don't have the raw data to answer your question. However, Dad300's design and statements on it's output would indicate you are correct. Two notes on this: (1) I think he is running SPP where I am going to try both lava rock and marbles, and (2) ordering the third 18" spool was $30 now and $45 later because of shipping. I intend to run it both as a 36" column with 32" of packing and a 54" column with 50" of packing. Once I get some hard numbers on the time, quality, and output volume differences, I will post what I have found. I am still trying to completely grasp the connection between height, packing, speed, and power. I suspect some experiments in different formations will help me get a better understanding of all those relationships.

You may need a 2 inch to 3 inch reducer to clamp to the keg.

I am going to turn the keg over, use the 2 inch for a bottom drain, and add a 3" connection to the keg.

[kimbodious]

I use SS scrubbers for my packing and was having flooding issues; too many scrubbers packed tightly. I put in a tee with SD sight glass kit to watch for flooding; it gives me reassurance but it did add an extra 10" to the overall height. Have you thought about including a sight glass?

I use the power controller to maintain a constant level of bubbling condensate in the sight glass. Interestingly there are two times the level in the sight glass drops, first is when I understand the column is equalised and the fractions have stacked up as well as they ever going to, secondly is just at the onset of tails. When the level drops initially I increase power slightly and start taking off fores. When the level drops late in the run I shut it down because I am not interested in having the really stinky tails smell in the packing. So I have learned to use the level in the sight glass as a guide to operating my still

I doubt if flooding would be an issue for you with lava rock but it might be with SPP.

You will enjoy operating the CCVM. Out of all the reflux column configurations I have run the CCVM is by far the easiest and the neutral I am getting at azeo from Googe's simple kale recipe is brilliant! Check out the pics in my .signature as to how I construct the pot still; modular systems make it so easy!

[Stainless]

Congrats on yer setup, but if yer goin to weld on a new flange on the bottom, now the top, go four inch coz then you may be able to get yer hand in there, my missus can get her hand into a 3" opening but I can't. Ha ,,,leave it three inch and let the wife deal with the cleaning.
Cheers and good wishes to you on yer project.
Will

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Lava rock is a beautiful packing. But it DOES flood. I run 5500w on a 2 inch column, and I have to dial it back to about 45%. At about 50%, it gurgles and I get flooding into my take off. I don't run with sight glasses or thermometers, so it took a few runs to realize what was going on!

[kimbodious]

Lava rock is a beautiful packing. But it DOES flood... At about 50%, it gurgles and I get flooding into my take off. I don't run with sight glasses or thermometers, so it took a few runs to realize what was going on!

Me too, I was getting a great rate of output but my product was a smeared mess. I still can't tell from the sounds when my column was flooding but that is not an issue anymore. I haven't bothered setting up a parrot and I don't refer much to the thermometer either not like I had to with the CM.

[der wo]

Lava rock is a beautiful packing. But it DOES flood. I run 5500w on a 2 inch column, and I have to dial it back to about 45%. At about 50%, it gurgles and I get flooding into my take off.

I think 5500W on 2" is too much with any common packing, not only lava rock.

[QuietNoWhere]

... I put in a tee with SD sight glass kit to watch for flooding; it gives me reassurance but it did add an extra 10" to the overall height. Have you thought about including a sight glass? ...

Yes, I have and am considering a sight glass. Just a little shocked over the price.

[FullySilenced]

My suggestion... forget the 2" and go with 3" you will never regret it...

happy stillin,

FS

Follow Dad's Thread cheap and easy like Dad

[der wo]

Yes. He already has changed his plan to 3". First sketch is 2", second sketch 3". 5500W. Perfect combination I think.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Yes. He already has changed his plan to 3". First sketch is 2", second sketch 3". 5500W. Perfect combination I think.

Agreed, that's what mine is. I started with 2", went to 3" after a month or so and haven't regretted it.

[Klein]

Just built a 2" (ccvm and only ran as a pot still so far) and already looking to build bigger. I have not even run it as a reflux column yet!!
I'm glad I put a 4" ferrule on my keg. Lol

[kimbodious]

...Have you thought about including a sight glass? ...

Yes, I have and am considering a sight glass. Just a little shocked over the price.

I know what you mean! I already had the second tee so the cheapest option was the SD sight glass kit. If you were keen you could put a ferrule for a SGK near the top of one of the 18" spool sections? You could do that later if you think you want one. I put in a lot of planning and $$ in to my CCVM and use it about one quarter as much as my pot still, but then when I do a run with my CCVM I am glad I put the thought and $$ into it.