Bubble Cap Sizing Advice

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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gundog48
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Bubble Cap Sizing Advice

Post by gundog48 »

Hi there, finally decided to make the best use of my new boiler and build a 4" column. I'll be working with piping sizes readily available in the UK.

The plan is fairly simple, I've decided to save myself the time and expense and buy a large sight glass designed to fit 4" plates, but will be fabbing up the plates myself. I plan to use palinkagus's design for the caps: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=52116 as this will reduce the need for tight-order soldering, especially as I don't have a torch big enough for silver soldering.

22mm is slightly less than 7/8", 28mm is roughly 1-1/8".

The upcomers will be 5x 22mm pipes. 22mm is the OD. I will cut, form and flare these as has been done above in order to create a mounting to screw the bubble caps into. For the caps, I will use 28mm end caps which I plan to slot to about 5mm height. This will leave a gap of 3mm all the way around (roughly 1/8")

As people have been talking about inadequately sized downcomers, I plan to use 28mm pipe, this will be soldered so that it is sticking 20mm (3/4") above the tray. The downcomer will descend about 50mm (2") and soldered to an offset 35mm endcap, 5mm from the bottom. This leaves a 7mm gap at it's widest. This will act as the trap.

What are your thoughts? Am I pushing a little too big on the pipe sizes? Are my bubble cap gaps big enough, and how about the sizing for the downcomer and trap? I could scale this down to 15mm upcomers with 22mm caps and a 22mm downcomer, which mimics the 1/2" caps and 3/4" downcomers. The pot is a 50L unit with a 4.4KW element.

Here's a rough drawing (mostly to scale) of what I'm thinking:

Image

Many thanks!
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Swedish Pride
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Re: Bubble Cap Sizing Advice

Post by Swedish Pride »

Some folks do a single 2" cap and a 3/4 dowcommer and seem happy with that.
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Yummyrum
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Re: Bubble Cap Sizing Advice

Post by Yummyrum »

Sure it will work . Looks pretty typical . The down commer size is not important , its the open area where the bubbles colapse into which is critical point . IE you could flare some 1/2" or 3/4" out to 28mm and it will work the same . Many do .
You won't need all of that 4.4kw when running , probably closer to 2.5 - 3 max but it will help with boilup times .

Good luck with your build and hope to see lots of pics :D
vqstatesman
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Re: Bubble Cap Sizing Advice

Post by vqstatesman »

I have never built any still equipment myself so my advice is limited.

All my equipment comes from Still Dragon, I have a 4" column with bubble plates... I recently upgraded my plates to their "pro caps" and it increased my output by almost 100% while maintaining the same ABV. Might be worth checking out their design and trying to copy, im sure they have an R&D article on their forum.
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pfshine
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Re: Bubble Cap Sizing Advice

Post by pfshine »

You want as much open flow area between the riser and the cap as there is in the riser. The riser has .44"sq open area and takes up .6"sq. The cap has an open area of .7854"sq. So 0.7854-0.6=0.1854 that is less than half of the volume of the riser, this can cause some vapor speed issues. If it were me I would try to have them equalish for the best results
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gundog48
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Re: Bubble Cap Sizing Advice

Post by gundog48 »

pfshine wrote:You want as much open flow area between the riser and the cap as there is in the riser. The riser has .44"sq open area and takes up .6"sq. The cap has an open area of .7854"sq. So 0.7854-0.6=0.1854 that is less than half of the volume of the riser, this can cause some vapor speed issues. If it were me I would try to have them equalish for the best results
Thanks for the specifics, it's hard to find calculations like this sometimes! That said, I'm somewhat struggling to follow.

22mm riser:
Radius = 11mm/0.44"
Area = 380mm sq/ 0.6" sq

28mm cap:
Radius = 14mm/0.55"
Area = 616mm/0.95" sq

Area between riser and cap = Area of cap - area of riser
= 616mm sq-380mm sq = 236mm sq
= 0.95" sq - 0.6" sq = 0.35" sq

So, if I understand correctly, the issue is that the area of the riser-cap gap area is low compared to the riser area? In this case 0.35"sq/0.6"sq = 58% of the size, and should be nearer 100%?

If this is so, my best option would be to reduce the sizes to 15mm/22mm, so:

15mm riser:
Radius = 7.5mm/0.3"
Area = 178mm sq/ 0.28" sq

22mm cap:
Radius = 11mm/0.44"
Area = 380mm sq/ 0.6" sq

Area between riser and cap = Area of cap - area of riser
= 380mm sq-178mm sq = 144mm sq
= 0.6" sq - 0.28" sq = 0.32" sq

0.32/0.28 = 114%. This is much closer, but the sizes are much smaller, in your experience, is that likely to work better?
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