Just picked up this Column - Would love your opinion

[joshswest]

Hello everyone from Colorado, I am super excited to be part of this forum. I am very new to the distilling and would love your opinion on this column I just picked up. It has a 2'' base then is reduced to 1 1/2'' column then back to a 2'' where the top coil is. Please let me know what you think of the design and how you think it will work. Also what type of column would this be classified as.

Thank you for all your help and input!!

[HDNB]

it does not appear to have a method to control the distillate output. i.e. a valve for liquid or vapour.

so i guess that makes it a pot still with a somewhat ineffective reflux coil attached to the top.

[ShineRunner]

it does not appear to have a method to control the distillate output. i.e. a valve for liquid or vapour.

so i guess that makes it a pot still with a somewhat ineffective reflux coil attached to the top.

Agreed. No visible valve. But I think since the takeoff is so much smaller than the riser, it’ll get some forced reflux action and have a fixed reflux ratio- if you’re able to pack it. Not exactly ideal.

Could work as a plain pot still by just capping the top and removing the “reflux condenser.” The Liebig looks rather short and will be inefficient for a hot and heavy stripping run, but it can work..

SR

[joshswest]

it does not appear to have a method to control the distillate output. i.e. a valve for liquid or vapour.

so i guess that makes it a pot still with a somewhat ineffective reflux coil attached to the top.

Agreed. No visible valve. But I think since the takeoff is so much smaller than the riser, it’ll get some forced reflux action and have a fixed reflux ratio- if you’re able to pack it. Not exactly ideal.

Could work as a plain pot still by just capping the top and removing the “reflux condenser.” The Liebig looks rather short and will be inefficient for a hot and heavy stripping run, but it can work..

SR

Thank you for the input guys!! So if I were to add a valve on the takeoff then it would basically be a VM system? Also if the valve is closed how do I avoid pressure buildup in the column until I open the valve? Thanks again for the help, super noob!!

[ShineRunner]

Do some reading up on reflux columns, but part of the problem with just adding a valve on the takeoff is that because your takeoff is smaller than your column, your minimum reflux ratio will be somewhere around 4:1 or so. Not sure on your sizes. That’ll mean slow runs.

Just went back and looked and your RC (reflux condenser) doesn’t appear to be open to atmosphere at the top. So basically, you have a pot still that needs to remain open at the takeoff. Not sure who came up with that design, but I suppose you’ll get some additional reflux from it to raise your proof a little.

Edit to emphasize: Do NOT add a valve to the takeoff without making the top of the column open to atmosphere.

[ShineRunner]

How big is the tubing for your takeoff? 3/8” OD? If so, That’s pretty small and likely to be problematic as well. We like to see a minimum of 1/2” OD to prevent clogging in case of puking. Even then, I’d be more comfortable with 1/2” ID.
SR

[joshswest]

Do some reading up on reflux columns, but part of the problem with just adding a valve on the takeoff is that because your takeoff is smaller than your column, your minimum reflux ratio will be somewhere around 4:1 or so. Not sure on your sizes. That’ll mean slow runs.

Just went back and looked and your RC (reflux condenser) doesn’t appear to be open to atmosphere at the top. So basically, you have a pot still that needs to remain open at the takeoff. Not sure who came up with that design, but I suppose you’ll get some additional reflux from it to raise your proof a little.

Edit to emphasize: Do NOT add a valve to the takeoff without making the top of the column open to atmosphere.

Right on thank you for the tips!! Found this column on craigslist and the guy who built it said it rocks but I have become skeptical since I have not seen any other designs like this on the forum. Guess I can try it unpacked as a pot still first and see how it goes then maybe a packed run after and see if its worth its weight in copper!

[pfshine]

If it were me I would scrap both condensers and rebuild them. The RC is rather anemic and the PC diameter is too small at 3/8" od. That said it's a good starting point to work on and you don't need to do or spend much to get it up to snuff.

Edit: posting while 3 others did

[joshswest]

How big is the tubing for your takeoff? 3/8” OD? If so, That’s pretty small and likely to be problematic as well. We like to see a minimum of 1/2” OD to prevent clogging in case of puking. Even then, I’d be more comfortable with 1/2” ID.
SR

Here is a photo of the takeoff and its sizes. Let me know what you think!! Thank you!

[joshswest]

If it were me I would scrap both condensers and rebuild them. The RC is rather anemic and the PC diameter is too small at 3/8" od. That said it's a good starting point to work on and you don't need to do or spend much to get it up to snuff.

Edit: posting while 3 others did

Yeah looking like I should have done more research before pulling the trigger on this one!

[ShineRunner]

I would look at it a couple of ways, but first- what are you trying to make? Do you want to make flavored drinks-whiskey, rum, etc? Or are you after vodka and neutral? That will help guide where you want to go with this. It’s got decent bones, it just needs to be updated a bit.

If you’re after flavored drinks, then you want a pot still. Which is what you have, but it’s a wonky pot still. You could really run it as is, but the takeoff tubing is too thin IMO. It’s unsafe. And your liebig is short. Both are going to combine to make things difficult for you.

If you leave as a pot still, you could leave the “RC” in place and run it as is. You’ll get a little bit of reflux out of it that might raise your proof a few points. That may be worth it to you. You could also just leave it in place, not run the RC, make sure you seal the cap with flour paste or whatever, and then you’ve got a regular pot still. You could change the RC setup later, after you get some runs under your belt.

Realistically, first priority should be changing the takeoff and PC. I can’t quite tell what size your tee is for takeoff. Is it 3/4 outlet? If so, you could run a 3/4 to reduced to 1/2 (5/8” OD) hard line and do a 3/4 over 1/2 Liebig. Make it fairly long to be more efficient. They’re easy to build and would knock down a lot more power than what you’ve got.

If you’re after reflux/neutral, then we’ve got to make a few other changes. Could be fairly simple. Either way, I’d start with the product condenser.

SR

[ShineRunner]

If it were me I would scrap both condensers and rebuild them. The RC is rather anemic and the PC diameter is too small at 3/8" od. That said it's a good starting point to work on and you don't need to do or spend much to get it up to snuff.

Edit: posting while 3 others did

Yeah looking like I should have done more research before pulling the trigger on this one!

Probably. We’ve seen much worse here though! You’ve got kind of a hybrid still and it’s really not going to be that good at anything that you need. It will “work,” but you can do better!

I personally think the ultimate combo rig is a CCVM/pot still with a tee. It’s what i have and several others as well. It can be used as a regular pot or as a ccvm with minimal compromise.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=65801

SR

[joshswest]

I would look at it a couple of ways, but first- what are you trying to make? Do you want to make flavored drinks-whiskey, rum, etc? Or are you after vodka and neutral? That will help guide where you want to go with this. It’s got decent bones, it just needs to be updated a bit.

If you’re after flavored drinks, then you want a pot still. Which is what you have, but it’s a wonky pot still. You could really run it as is, but the takeoff tubing is too thin IMO. It’s unsafe. And your liebig is short. Both are going to combine to make things difficult for you.

If you leave as a pot still, you could leave the “RC” in place and run it as is. You’ll get a little bit of reflux out of it that might raise your proof a few points. That may be worth it to you. You could also just leave it in place, not run the RC, make sure you seal the cap with flour paste or whatever, and then you’ve got a regular pot still. You could change the RC setup later, after you get some runs under your belt.

Realistically, first priority should be changing the takeoff and PC. I can’t quite tell what size your tee is for takeoff. Is it 3/4 outlet? If so, you could run a 3/4 to reduced to 1/2 (5/8” OD) hard line and do a 3/4 over 1/2 Liebig. Make it fairly long to be more efficient. They’re easy to build and would knock down a lot more power than what you’ve got.

If you’re after reflux/neutral, then we’ve got to make a few other changes. Could be fairly simple. Either way, I’d start with the product condenser.

SR

Thank you for all this info!! To answer your question I really want to make whiskey and Gin. So what kind of setup you be best for that?

[ShineRunner]

Me too. Plain pot still is best for whiskey. Gin can be made in a couple of ways. 1 is to make neutral first and then redistill using Odin’s Easy gin (look it up in tried and true recipes). Of course, the best way to make neutral is with a reflux still. Or you could buy neutral (everclear) and make your gin from that. I’ve attempted to make “vodka” from a pot still by running it multiple times, but it was tedious and wasn’t all that neutral. I subsequently built my ccvm/pot combo.

You could theoretically make all of this from your current still. It’s not going to be the best or easiest setup for that, but it should work. A better rig would be a modular CCVM like mine/SOCD’s.

Can you solder?

[joshswest]

Me too. Plain pot still is best for whiskey. Gin can be made in a couple of ways. 1 is to make neutral first and then redistill using Odin’s Easy gin (look it up in tried and true recipes). Of course, the best way to make neutral is with a reflux still. Or you could buy neutral (everclear) and make your gin from that. I’ve attempted to make “vodka” from a pot still by running it multiple times, but it was tedious and wasn’t all that neutral. I subsequently built my ccvm/pot combo.

You could theoretically make all of this from your current still. It’s not going to be the best or easiest setup for that, but it should work. A better rig would be a modular CCVM like mine/SOCD’s.

Can you solder?

Yes I can solder and I would love to build a set up like yours! Whats CCVM like mine/SOCD’s mean? If I build a unit like yours could I re use my column and the coil condenser? Also I would want to make gin the correct way using a gin basket. Where would you add that to your set up? Thank you for all your help!

[Pikey]

It's easy enough to chop it about later - if you want to.

Not easy to say without seeing the plate arrangement inside the column.

I'd run it - you may just find it gives you enough extra reflux off a 10% wash to give cask strength - if not you haven't lost anything.

When he says "It rocks" - he is proabably literally correct - mine with a tall column does exactly that - "Rocks" from side to side "

[joshswest]

It's easy enough to chop it about later - if you want to.

Not easy to say without seeing the plate arrangement inside the column.

I'd run it - you may just find it gives you enough extra reflux off a 10% wash to give cask strength - if not you haven't lost anything.

When he says "It rocks" - he is proabably literally correct - mine with a tall column does exactly that - "Rocks" from side to side "

There is nothing inside the column... Except for the coil at the top..

[Pikey]

Ok then it's a pot - with a little cooling applied at the top.

You could make it into a Boka of sorts with a better Reflux condenser, a vent hole drilled in the top cap, plates hacksawed in and a modification to the offtake to limit pooling in the reducer - like A 45 degree bend in a piece of new 1/2" and attach the reducer to the bottom of that. And some packing in the column of course.

Then again, you could just try running as is - and see if the distillate abv is increased at all, like I said above. see whether you get any benefit at all.

If you do that, don't put the heat up too high with that little offtake for the vapour to go down.

[zapata]

Thats a really strange still. Really there is nothing else in the column? Not a couple plates, or some couplers or something that would catch a small pool of liquid at the sidearm? With the coil removed, it's just a full empty bore all the way down?

If that is really the case, hmmm. I guess if you packed the column with mesh or scrubbies, it would work like an uncontrollable vapor management still. So you wouldn't be able to put it into full reflux for equalization, and you wouldn't be able to actively control takeoff. But it would have a fixed reflux rate of whatever the ratio of side arm area to condenser shell area is. Probably about a 1:4 or 1:5 fixed reflux rate? How long is the column (from boiler to take off), about 2 feet? So it would probably run fine like that, but I'm not sure what the best way to use it would be. With low to moderate heat to the boiler, I'd guess you might have distillate around 80% abv.

If gin is your goal, that ain't the best rig for it. But with some experience, double distillations, and strict cuts you could probably make a halfway decent base for gin, which IMHO is the hard part compared to distilling your base with the botanicals. So no reason to not start there and learn while you do a LOT of reading and planning on building or modifying. Some learn best by reading, some by doing, but pretty much everybody has to do a lot of both before they make anything great.

I'd drill a hole (1/2" or so) in that cap for a vent, pack the column with SS or copper scrubbies or copper mesh, head over to tried and true and pick a sugar wash, and see what happens. Just run water through the condensers before the pot boils, turn down the heat if any uncondensed vapor comes out of the liebig tip or the vented cap, collect in lots of small jars and see what you get.

[joshswest]

Thats a really strange still. Really there is nothing else in the column? Not a couple plates, or some couplers or something that would catch a small pool of liquid at the sidearm? With the coil removed, it's just a full empty bore all the way down?

If that is really the case, hmmm. I guess if you packed the column with mesh or scrubbies, it would work like an uncontrollable vapor management still. So you wouldn't be able to put it into full reflux for equalization, and you wouldn't be able to actively control takeoff. But it would have a fixed reflux rate of whatever the ratio of side arm area to condenser shell area is. Probably about a 1:4 or 1:5 fixed reflux rate? How long is the column (from boiler to take off), about 2 feet? So it would probably run fine like that, but I'm not sure what the best way to use it would be. With low to moderate heat to the boiler, I'd guess you might have distillate around 80% abv.

If gin is your goal, that ain't the best rig for it. But with some experience, double distillations, and strict cuts you could probably make a halfway decent base for gin, which IMHO is the hard part compared to distilling your base with the botanicals. So no reason to not start there and learn while you do a LOT of reading and planning on building or modifying. Some learn best by reading, some by doing, but pretty much everybody has to do a lot of both before they make anything great.

I'd drill a hole (1/2" or so) in that cap for a vent, pack the column with SS or copper scrubbies or copper mesh, head over to tried and true and pick a sugar wash, and see what happens. Just run water through the condensers before the pot boils, turn down the heat if any uncondensed vapor comes out of the liebig tip or the vented cap, collect in lots of small jars and see what you get.

Yep you got it! Nothing in the column... The column is about 24'' made out of 1 1/2'' pipe the it goes to 2'' at the top where the coil is. Looking like I wasted 200 bucks on this thing. Might be time to build something new...

[Cu29er]

You didn't waste your money, if you got the pot with that column. Just some short mods.

Look up the Boka design here on the site and see how the angled capture plate is cut into the side wall of the pipe, do the second plate from the opposite side the same way (not the shoe at the end of the coil). Really easy to add those angles slices with a hack saw. Then solder flat-hammered plates cut from scrap pipe into those slots and grind off the outside flush. Put the take off where the Boka is and put your thermometer port in that area where the take-off action is at not where it is down the stack of the Boka plans. Make sure the coil top is open. cap the side chiller.

Pot still mode cap the Boka portion off and use the chiller on the side.

[joshswest]

You didn't waste your money, if you got the pot with that column. Just some short mods.

Look up the Boka design here on the site and see how the angled capture plate is cut into the side wall of the pipe, do the second plate from the opposite side the same way (not the shoe at the end of the coil). Really easy to add those angles slices with a hack saw. Then solder flat-hammered plates cut from scrap pipe into those slots and grind off the outside flush. Put the take off where the Boka is and put your thermometer port in that area where the take-off action is at not where it is down the stack of the Boka plans. Make sure the coil top is open. cap the side chiller.

Pot still mode cap the Boka portion off and use the chiller on the side.

Right on thank you for the advice. Looking at some plans online do you think I need to make a bigger coil or is the one I have long enough in your opinion? Also, I would only need to use the side chiller for pot still mode? So I would need an easy way to add or remove it depending on which mode I was doing? Thank you

[Pikey]

If you're going boka, you need a better Reflux condenser. tthe boka codenses the liquid in the column and it is liquid that comes out. so the liebig is almost redundant (and would be with a valve.

Remember IF you're putting a valve in you HAVE to drill the cap as a vent.

IF you don't have a valve, then the offtake will vent it and you don't need to drill the cap.

I'd try is first
a) without packing
b) With packing like Zapata says - if his 80% is right that could be damn good flavour hooch -

Plus we all want to hear what it produces as it is

[shadylane]

Plus we all want to hear what it produces as it is

[zapata]

Yeah, it's not a waste unless you don't use it. Its clear you have some preliminary reading to do anyway, so you can use the still to make SOMETHING and get experience making ANYTHING. You'll be in a better place to know exactly what you want to build, and why.

And who knows, maybe you'll be perfectly happy with it. I'm a perfectionist nerd when it comes to neutral spirits and would not be happy with that still. Doing "better" than I did last time is part of my hobby. You don't have a hobby yet, that still might suit your developing hobby just fine.

What ya got for a heat source? What is the fitting near the bottom of the boiler?

[joshswest]

Yeah, it's not a waste unless you don't use it. Its clear you have some preliminary reading to do anyway, so you can use the still to make SOMETHING and get experience making ANYTHING. You'll be in a better place to know exactly what you want to build, and why.

And who knows, maybe you'll be perfectly happy with it. I'm a perfectionist nerd when it comes to neutral spirits and would not be happy with that still. Doing "better" than I did last time is part of my hobby. You don't have a hobby yet, that still might suit your developing hobby just fine.

What ya got for a heat source? What is the fitting near the bottom of the boiler?

All great points, I do think I will use it soon and just see what happens. I will update you all on how it goes! I also am a perfectionist and want things to be built correct and work perfectly so to be honest im sure things will get upgraded or changed real quick. I have a propane burner for heat source and the fitting at the boiler where the column attaches is a 2'' tri clamp fitting. Cheers

[zapata]

I meant the fitting near the bottom on the left side of your first pic, I assume it's a drain port, but couldn't tell what size. I was really wondering if it's a size that could be used for an electric element (1" threaded, or 1.5 or 2 inch triclamp).

Propane will work fine for that still. Some people can make great neutral on a good column with propane, but I couldn't. It was too hard to set to known power settings, and too variable for me to learn lessons from run to run. I can run a pot still over fire by feel and feedback, but to me the path to a great neutral is math, starting with power input. Which is why I asked about that side port, internal electric heating elements make the math nice and precise.

[joshswest]

Ok everyone I tried this odd column yesterday in pot still mode with water going into both condensers. Everything you all said would be wrong was.... The Liebig condenser is way way to small and so is the 1/4'' pipe leading from the takeoff into the condenser. Multiple times the super small takeoff pipe would pool up and clog for a second and once the vapor pushed the pool out a nice large puff of vapor would come out the end of the condenser. NOT GOOD!! The top coil did give me a little reflux but with no packing it was just falling back into the boiler. So it DID work but was a super slow and not efficient stripping run. Time salvage parts and build a new CCVM column.

[zapata]

Bummer

[ShineRunner]

Well, now you know! On to newer and better things!

SR