First run of my new VM column

[zapata]

If that is a packed column that is what seriously flooded looks like. Heck, it looks flooded even if it were a bubble plate! That would not be efficient or stable in my column.

May work for Kimbodious, but isnt typically done with the possible exception of people that say SPP works best flooded. Interested to hear more about how you manage that kimbo?

[kimbodious]

It is okay, outputting cleanest azeotrope at around 1.2 litres per hour on a 2” column. The proof is in the product LOL. You can see the level of the fluidised bed is about 6” below the offtake.

I control the level of the fluidised bed by controlling the rate of vapour flow (power to the boiler in this case ~1600W). It is a delicate balance berween level of power and density/ amount of packing. I can reduce the amount of packing which will reduce the amount of condensate pooling but then there is the consideration of amount of packing with respect to amount of reflux that will occur.

Lots of discussion about aquatic environment/ fluidised beds etc here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65590&p=7461487&hil ... c#p7461487

[FL Brewer]

Kimbodious - like you say, the proof is in the pudding! If you get good output when you run like that, it works. Maybe you're running on the slightly aggressive side wrt power input, but seems like there's a wide range to work with. I'll always defer to experiment when it contradicts my partially informed logic..... My column has about the same space from the top of the packing to the vapor takeoff as yours, so a similar liquid level may work for me too.

Are those marbles you used for packing? I think I'm going to try marbles for my next run, I've got enough 14mm glass marbles to fill the column. I read good things about them on the specific threads about using them. The general consensus on those threads seems to be that you need more column length to get azeotrope than with other packing material, but that they're more idiot proof..... or at least idiot resistant. That's a big plus from my viewpoint.

BTW, thanks for everyone who responded to my original post, I'm learning a lot.....

[kimbodious]

Two sections of 2”x24” spool each with eleven Choreboy SS scrubbers. I may reduce the number of scrubbers a bit further say to a total of 16 (originally 33) and see if I can still achieve azeo. The video you saw was when I had 33 scrubbers in the column. I’ll have to tease out the remaining scrubbers to fill the entire column. I figure if I can still get the column to stay in total reflux, initially, I should still be able to get high purity ABV.

High ABV is less important to me than avoiding smeared product, but if I can manage both I am a happy bloke.

The cool thing about this hobby is the wide variation in equipment, recipes and operation; there is no single “the right way”.

[zapata]

Kimbo, I'm guessing you've experimented at least a fair bit. What's the benefit to running flooded? 48" packed, 1.2 lph, 1600 watts (SWAGed reflux rate of about 5:1?) seems pretty achievable for a non flooded column.

Is it clearer cuts? Or just an easily managed visual indicator you're on the bleeding edge of power/reflux the packing can handle, so more a tuning tool than an inherent benefit?

Clearly it's working for you, but I have a similar column with similar power and takeoff, what could I hope for if I ran it flooded like that?

[kimbodious]

Zapata, I use the sight glass as a tuning tool. Before the SG, I used to get higher rates of output but smeared product with lower ABV. Now with the SG I can determine the upper power level I can apply before flooding occurs.

From what others say, 1.2-1.5 litres per hour at azeotrope is about as good as I can expect from a 48” x 2” packed column. If you find you have higher rates of output with your packed column reflux still but issues with low ABV and smeared product try reducing the rate of vapour flow.

As far as fluidised bed/ aquatic environment in stills check out videos of plated stills on youtube

[bluefish_dist]

Zapata, I use the sight glass as a tuning tool. Before the SG, I used to get higher rates of output but smeared product with lower ABV. Now with the SG I can determine the upper power level I can apply before flooding occurs.

From what others say, 1.2-1.5 litres per hour at azeotrope is about as good as I can expect from a 48” x 2” packed column. If you find you have higher rates of output with your packed column reflux still but issues with low ABV and smeared product try reducing the rate of vapour flow.

As far as fluidised bed/ aquatic environment in stills check out videos of plated stills on youtube

The only way for a higher takeoff is either a lot more height or bigger column. Using a max speed of 20 that is about 1600-1800 w on a 2" column. Personally I had my best product at 1l/hr. With a 4" you can pull a gallon an hour or more.

[kimbodious]

My point being is that you can achieve higher rates of output by not running the still correctly that is by overwhelming the packed section with too great a flow of vapour. The reflux condenser dutifully condenses the vapour but the condensate simply can't return to the boiler quick enough. Then you get users asking for help because their product tastes bad and has low ABV even though they are getting very high rates of output. The answer is to reduce the amount of vapour you're sending up the column. New hobby distillers get distracted by rates of output when the only thing that really matters is the quality of the product.

[FL Brewer]

I've had a chance to do a new run with the VM still after making some of the modifications suggested above - added the copper beard to direct the liquid flow into the center of the column, installed a sight glass section, removed some of the packing, and made sure the column was as close to exactly vertical as I could get it. I actually ran a bourbon, so not trying to get the best separation and high ABV, and it seemed to work really well for that. My low wines were 7 gallons at 40% (a new bourbon mash, and feints from the previous two runs, all diluted to 40%). I ran with about a 3 or 4:1 reflux ratio (can see the stream returned to the column now, so I can make that visual estimate) through the heads, and got excellent heads compression, less than a half gallon before the hearts cut. Once I started taking off the hearts (78.8 C), I increased the heat and opened the takeoff valve, reflux ratio going down to about 2:1. Got almost two quarts an hour of distillate, tasted very similar to my pot still runs. I collected a little under two and a half gallons of hearts at 87.4% before I started to taste tails, and made the tails cut at about 79.8 C. I didn't run out the tails, they got nasty pretty quickly.

So, I'm going to have to wait a year to tell you for sure, but I think I'm going to be using the VM instead of the pot still head for my whiskey spirits runs. Looking at the alcohol in the low wines, I got 75% efficiency through the spirit run (about 2.8 gallons of EtOH in, 2.1 gallons out). The white dog tastes just like my pot still white dog.

I don't know how you can run this type of still without the sight glass. Being able to see what's going on with the reflux is huge.

I'm still not checked out on making a good neutral yet, but I'm getting more comfortable driving this thing now. Maybe I'll redistill that first batch again.

[kimbodious]

Sounds like a great run .

[FL Brewer]

Sounds like a great run .

It made me happy. Yup, that's a great run.

Couldn't have done it without the tips and advice from the folks on this forum.

[FL Brewer]

Just wanted to give an update on this batch.... it's been three years on oak, and it is wonderful. Best stuff I've made so far. I'm into the last jug, have a little under two quarts still on the wood (into the jugs at 60% ABV), I'm gonna shed a tear when drinking the last of this. I've followed the same protocol on another batch of bourbon, batches of single malt and Booner's corn whiskey, and gonna run an oat whiskey soon. At 2-3 years I think they're all gonna be great.

The VM still definitely works for whiskey.