Removing some off the ID of copper

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Big_Daddy
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Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Big_Daddy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:50 am

I am building a modular style CCVM/ pot still and I am doing so with 2" copper. I bought multiple ferrules that a going to be used at all of the attachment points. The ferrules are supposed to slip inside of the 2" copper and then be sodered on. My problem I'm having is that the ferrules wont fit inside of the 2" copper, and I figure the easiest way to fix this problem is to remove some of the material from the ID of the copper. I don't need to remove a whole lot, the ferrule is almost able to fit. I probable need to remove .010 from the ID. Anyone have a good way to go about doing this? I would appreciate any feedback. I am mimicking the still design that Still It uses.

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Swedish Pride » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:59 am

Put the ferrule in the freezer
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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by StillerBoy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:06 am

Anneal the copper pipe, then press in the ferrule by slowly driving it in with a rubber hammer, with the other end of the pipe against a piece of wood..

Once anneal, clean the end very good of both pieces, add paste/flux, then press it in, ready to be soldered..

Mars
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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Big_Daddy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:10 am

Thank yall for the responses.

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by cob » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:55 am

if your pipe was cut with a plumbers pipe cutter remove the lip inside your pipe and champher

the inside slightly and proceed as stillerboy suggest's, you may not even need to anneal.

using a pipe cutter compresses the copper at the cut.
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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Samyguy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:13 pm

did you get heavy wall copper pipe?
See if you find waste/drain/vent copper pipe,
should be of the thin wall

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Big_Daddy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:41 pm

I believe it might be the heavy wall, I had it given to me from a plumber.

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by The Baker » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:40 pm

At least one supplier has an Expanded ferrule (whatever) so the pipe fits in.

As to WHICH pipe, I dunno; I know there are differing wall thicknesses ...

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by HDNB » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:48 pm

heat the pipe and freeze the ferrule is good simple advise.

boring hone stones are a good option too, if you know someone with tools. you can micky mouse a boring hone with some emery cloth or sand paper on a dowel, reduced to fit a drill. a cylindrical metal burr will work quickly too... even in a drill motor. Of course the faster you can spin it (dremel or air tool) the faster it would work.
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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Mr Sippy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:05 pm

I used a muffler tail pipe expander from harbor freight. Think it was $7. It worked well for me on 2in M type.
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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Samyguy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:21 pm

tail pipe expander may work
or go to Menrads / Lowes try different plumbing fitings for size
I turned mine on my metal lathe/ bored I.D. to size

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Longhairedcountryboy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:58 pm

DWV slips easily on the ferrule. For thicker walled copper, I use a dremmel with an 80 grit sanding drum bit on the inside of the pipe.

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Big_Daddy » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:02 pm

It is type L. the tail pipe expander trick didn't work on the heavy wall like I was hoping it would. I wish I had a lathe, but I don't have access to one currently. I believe I am going to try and go the route of the cylindrical grinder.

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by shadylane » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:53 pm

Big_Daddy wrote:It is type L. the tail pipe expander trick didn't work on the heavy wall like I was hoping it would. I wish I had a lathe, but I don't have access to one currently. I believe I am going to try and go the route of the cylindrical grinder.
Anneal the end of the copper and try using tail pipe expander again
Personally I'd anneal the copper, stick the 2" over the 1-7/8" ball hitch on the back of my old truck
Then peck around the tubing with a little hammer until the ID was big enough.

Copper doesn't take too high of a temp to anneal, a gas cook stove, gas barbeque or even a small campfire will do the trick.
Last edited by shadylane on Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by StillerBoy » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:57 pm

Anneal the copper end of the pipe.. grind the end of the ferrule at a 45 degree, just a small facing grind and tap it in with a rubber mallet, with the other of the pipe on a piece of 2 x 4.. clean both pieces, flux, then press.. done

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by shadylane » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:59 pm

Ya can't do it that way, because it sounds too logical :lol:

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by still_stirrin » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:01 pm

Big_Daddy wrote:It is type L...
You bought the wrong stuff. And, it's more expensive too. And you don't need anything thicker than DWV for a still.

All copper rigid pipe is the same OD. But the wall thickness varies ... from DWV (the thinnest wall), then type M, type L, and finally type K (the thickest wall).

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by cob » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:18 pm

Big_Daddy wrote:I believe it might be the heavy wall, I had it given to me from a plumber.
be water my friend

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by StillerBoy » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:28 am

shadylane wrote:Ya can't do it that way, because it sounds too logical
You got it shady.. It is beyond me as to why the difficult in installing a ferrule.. all the best of advise has been provide.. I guess the OP take joy in give himself a hard time..

Mars
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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by 30xs » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:35 pm

I know it’s a little late but, a 2” flap disk in a die grinder, or even a drill on high speed, works very well for honing out the I.D. You can find them in most auto parts stores, or welding supply stores.

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Twisted Brick » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:59 pm

StillerBoy wrote:Anneal the copper end of the pipe.. grind the end of the ferrule at a 45 degree, just a small facing grind and tap it in with a rubber mallet, with the other of the pipe on a piece of 2 x 4.. clean both pieces, flux, then press.. done

Mars
This question comes up every so often maybe someone could make a sticky along with some other soldering SOP's...

I was gifted 3" Type L copper and the freeze/anneal trick didn't work (too thick). So I took a shot (hadn't heard of Mars' solution) and did the 45* thing on the bench grinder. Worked a treat, although the ferrule got hotter than a pistol. The trick is to get the ferrule to line up square before you hit your 2x4 with a BFH.

You can see how much the ferrule caused the copper to deform. It was so tight it brought back memories of my youth, er I thought I could get away without solder until I was dutifully warned here not to do that. So I hammered the ferrule out, and it soldered up nice.
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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by hpby98 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:45 pm

Just confirming you want Type M *not* the thicker Type L copper Pipe for copper ferrules

The outside diameter will be identical, but the inner pipe thickness will eat up the space
Last edited by hpby98 on Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by StillerBoy » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:57 pm

Twisted Brick wrote:So I took a shot (hadn't heard of Mars' solution) and did the 45* thing on the bench grinder.
Glad to here it worked for you..

Works every time, and it's easy.. learned the method while rebuilding two-cycle racing engines (too many years ago), and it can be applied in many circumstances..

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by Windy City » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:54 pm

hpby98 wrote:Just confirming you want Type L *not* the thicker Type M copper Pipe for copper ferrules

The outside diameter will be identical, but the inner pipe thickness will eat up the space
Type L is thicker than Type M
From thinnest to thickest
Type DWV, Type M, Type L and finally Type K
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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by hpby98 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:43 pm

Windy City wrote:
hpby98 wrote:Just confirming you want Type M *not* the thicker Type L copper Pipe for copper ferrules

The outside diameter will be identical, but the inner pipe thickness will eat up the space
Type L is thicker than Type M
From thinnest to thickest
Type DWV, Type M, Type L and finally Type K

Nothing to see here :shock: move along...

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Re: Removing some off the ID of copper

Post by emptyglass » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:14 am

make sure there are no burrs.

form a chamfer on both parts.

clean and add flux.

use some wood as a buffer and hammer it in

Solder as required.

You can get small flap wheels that will fit in a drill chuck that match the size of your tube. under $5. you can use these to enlarge the hole but you can force the parts to fit pretty easy.

once you get the parts together the trick is to solder them properly
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