Stainless woven mesh as column packing

[savagedavid]

In my head this seems logical but I want some expert opinions. I happen to have most of a sheet of 316SS woven stainless mesh left over from another project. Is there any issue with just rolling it up into a cylinder (roughly 500mm high) and using that as column packing in my reflux head? In my mind it would be the same as 5 pieces of 100mm copper mesh. Am I missing anything obvious here?

[NZChris]

The only flaw I can see is that it wont have the flavor advantages of copper.

[Bushman]

Do you have copper anywhere in the vapor path?

[Danespirit]

Stainless steel is perfectly usable as column packing...especially the higher grade 316 you have at hand.
It makes cleaning much easier and it will last forever without degrading.
However, as others pointed out your product will benefit from some copper in the vapor path.
You'll be surprised how little it actually takes before there is a notable improvement of the quality produced.

[General47]

Hey i've been struggling with the same dilemma as i can't find copper scourers anywhere. Another forum member suggested stripping some electrical cables and i must say it works, it makes a neat and fairly dense copper "bunch" however not nearly enough to fill 1.3meters of 54mm tube. So I resolved to use stainless steel scrubbers also to fill in the rest. My Vapour path thus will start with about a meter of stainless scrubbers then 30cm of copper wire bunches before it turns into the the condenser. i am still waiting on the stainless i ordered, i will post results of the first run once used.

[seabass]

I've been using this with good results.

[Saltbush Bill]

I've been using this with good results

That's what I use .....it works very well.

[NZChris]

For a reflux column, SS scrubbies might be close the bottom of the list of desirable packing materials. There are a lot of threads on column packing, so don't restrict yourself by only choosing something from opinions on this thread.

[savagedavid]

To answer most of the comments, this will only pack around 1/2 of the column length, so there will still be 5 pieces of copper mesh. It will just be a lot easier to pack and clean this way.

[savagedavid]

For a reflux column, SS scrubbies might be close the bottom of the list of desirable packing materials. There are a lot of threads on column packing, so don't restrict yourself by only choosing something from opinions on this thread.

Hi NZChris

Are you able to elaborate on this? All the reading I have done seems to indicate that more surface area is desirable, so the same amount of copper or stainless should have the same effect? Aside from that some copper is desirable to remove some unwanted flavours.

In any event this is probably a short term solution, I will ultimately be ordering raschig rings (they are not too easy to obtain in my part of the world) and using a combination of copper mesh + rings.

[StillerBoy]

Is there any issue with just rolling it up into a cylinder (roughly 500mm high) and using that as column packing in my reflux

Yes there would be an issue.. you would be limiting the refluxing ability of your column..

SS scrubbies, to work properly or provide good refluxing, need to be compressed individually very tightly before being packed in the column..

What you suggesting to use will not compress tightly enough to provide much refluxing in the column, to much open space in the packing..

This thread has some good info on packing..
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76550&p=7590718#p7590718

Mars

[savagedavid]

Yes there would be an issue.. you would be limiting the refluxing ability of your column..

SS scrubbies, to work properly or provide good refluxing, need to be compressed individually very tightly before being packed in the column..

What you suggesting to use will not compress tightly enough to provide much refluxing in the column, to much open space in the packing..

This thread has some good info on packing..
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76550&p=7590718#p7590718

Mars

This is not a scrubby. It is 500 micron woven SS mesh. The surface area would be hugely more than a scrubby. My concern would be more that it is too tightly packed.

[StillerBoy]

This is not a scrubby. It is 500 micron woven SS mesh.

I fully understand they is not scrubbies.. but for ss scrubbies to work, they have to been compressed very tightly..

So you have a woven ss mesh that is 500 micron.. the micron size has little to do if it, it's how tightly can the woven mesh by wrapped.. remembering that any open space in the wrap will be the path that the vapors will travel in.. I'm of the view that there no way that the mesh can be wrap. as the center of the wrap will have an open channel and used as packing that will not provide the column with the reflux ability required..

To get very good packing efficiency in a 2 - 3" column, the packing if ss scrubbies needs to be tightly compressed, or if using lava rocks or marbles, they need to be in the range of a 1/4" in size..

The surface area would be hugely more than a scrubby.

Yes if the scrubbies are not compressed.. but if tightly compressed there is no way.. as the center of the wrap will have an open channel by the fact that the wrap will not be tight.. I'm of the view that the mesh will not allow the center or the start of the wrap to create a tight start..

But you don't have to take my view on it.. it's your to experiment with.. but if you do experiment with, it would be appreciate if you reported back on how it worked out, both in wrapping ability and performance (efficiency)..

Mars

[savagedavid]

No I get what you are saying. Vapour will take the path of least resistance. Do you think it could work if I cut the mesh into tight fitting disks that I could push up into the column that would be a better idea? Kind of like a poor man's plated column?

[zed255]

I would think a mesh like you suggest using would have to be in well fitted discs placed horizontally rather than rolled and placed vertically. The vertical arrangement, as has already been alluded to, would result in channeling of downward condensate which would make the interaction between the vapour and liquid less efficient. I suspect woven mesh screens to be rather springy and won't conform to the column very well unless precisely cut to fit.

Just my thoughts on it.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

No I get what you are saying. Vapour will take the path of least resistance. Do you think it could work if I cut the mesh into tight fitting disks that I could push up into the column that would be a better idea? Kind of like a poor man's plated column?

So what you're proposing sounds like a lot of sieve plates in close proximity with no downcomers. Sounds like you would have flooding and/or entrainment problems.

[StillerBoy]

Do you think it could work if I cut the mesh into tight fitting disks that I could push up into the column that would be a better idea? Kind of like a poor man's plated column?

Not really.. for packing to work well, or provide the efficiency required, there has to be the least open space possible, while still allowing vapors move through and liquid to come down.. cutting tight fitting disks for the length of column you have, in my mind would be a night mare.. and there are proven packing that working very well..

So what you're proposing sounds like a lot of sieve plates in close proximity with no downcomers. Sounds like you would have flooding and/or entrainment problems.

A very good possibility of flooding, if two or three disk block the vapors going up, thereby creating a pressure problem.. or block tight enough for the vapors to move up but will not allow liquid to come down..

Mars

[savagedavid]

@RedwoodHillBilly and @Stillerboy both excellent points. Guess there is a reason for the tried and tested methods and materials. Thought I could get away with what was lying around. I'll make a plan to get the raschig rings and use a combination of rings and copper mesh packing.

[NZChris]

For a reflux column, SS scrubbies might be close the bottom of the list of desirable packing materials. There are a lot of threads on column packing, so don't restrict yourself by only choosing something from opinions on this thread.

Hi NZChris

Are you able to elaborate on this? All the reading I have done seems to indicate that more surface area is desirable, so the same amount of copper or stainless should have the same effect? Aside from that some copper is desirable to remove some unwanted flavours.

In any event this is probably a short term solution, I will ultimately be ordering raschig rings (they are not too easy to obtain in my part of the world) and using a combination of copper mesh + rings.

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[Corsaire]

@RedwoodHillBilly and @Stillerboy both excellent points. Guess there is a reason for the tried and tested methods and materials. Thought I could get away with what was lying around. I'll make a plan to get the raschig rings and use a combination of rings and copper mesh packing.

If you have it lying around I'd test it. Report findings here. That way we can all see if it works.
I never would have guessed marbles and lava rock would be good candidates for example if not for the testing of others.

[jonnys_spirit]

why not cut the SS mesh into say 6" wide longish strips, layer with copper or SS mesh/scrubbies, and roll it up tightly so you can stuff it down the old gulliver so to speak. Mesh fills the channels and make a nice fairly thick layer around the outside to work as a packing gasket to combat weeping.

Stack these 6" long rolls into the column like a sushi cannon.

Not sure what the benefit of the 500 micron mesh would be in this case except to help hold the shape for best repeatability between packings. That might be a benefit.

Cheers,
jonny