6" Column Packing and Extension

[bluefish_dist]

FWIW the 4” column over a 6” plate could only run at about 5500-6000w and 1 gallon per hour. The 6” could almost double that and while I only had 8000w it could have taken closer to 12000. My takeaway was that scrubbies worked better on the 4” than 6”. I never tried rings or lava rock. Rings were simply too expensive from the quotes I got and with an unknown hetp. For lava, I was not willing to run an unknown sourced product in my column. When I tried marbles, I bough lab grade marbles instead of hobby lobby grade.

[ideasinbeer]

The Baker - Perhaps the use of the word chemical was a poor choice of words. Going for pure high proof neutral concerns me in that I'm wondering about any of the components of the rock being water/ethanol soluble. If I can find someone with the appropriate skills to assert that I've got no problem soaking them in a hot liquor solution to clean things up.

[ideasinbeer]

Bluefish - the throughput is certainly an eye opener. Raschig Rings would be prohibitive in cost it seems. I did a brief look for lab grade marbles (still working on that) and the first few sources that I found seemed little better than Raschig. Have you got a reasonable source? Lab grade would certainly put my mind at ease.

[bluefish_dist]

Bluefish - the throughput is certainly an eye opener. Raschig Rings would be prohibitive in cost it seems. I did a brief look for lab grade marbles (still working on that) and the first few sources that I found seemed little better than Raschig. Have you got a reasonable source? Lab grade would certainly put my mind at ease.

I never found a cheap source of lab grade marbles. They were expensive. My testing comparing marbles to chore boy scrubbies found the scrubbies had a better hetp. Don’t remember the exact numbers, but I am sure you can find them if you search. It was around 4” for scrubbies and 5” for marbles. So imho marbles offered no benefit except easier cleaning. They were more expensive, heavier, and lower hetp. I tried a few different things, but in the end more height and larger diameter worked best for getting high abv and fast output. If I had the room I would have used the structured packing and run 20 feet of column. But that just doesn’t fit in a 12 foot building. The best I found for my limited height was scrubbies.

[NineInchNails]

I'm getting 10# this week for my 3" VM.

NIN,

You will have to let us know how much 10# fills up your 3 in column.

I just put up my observations on this thread. Sorry, I don't want to hijack this topic.

[ideasinbeer]

Well let's go have a look.

[shadylane]

Throwing a sieve plate under most any packing will cause flooding due to the vapor speed required.

I've been there and verified that

[bluefish_dist]

Throwing a sieve plate under most any packing will cause flooding due to the vapor speed required.

I've been there and verified that

To further clarify a previous statement, using a sieve plate to hold packing will cause flooding, but running a sieve plate under packing does not. Whatever hold up your packing needs to have big holes.

[NineInchNails]

I learned this the hard way. My column was not performing anywhere near as it should. I tried to make it work the best I could the way it was until shadylane told me to ditch the restrictions I had. You want the absolute minimum unnecessary restrictions.

I originally made a grill with copper wires spaced approx 1/4" apart parallel to each other and poured my Ceramic Packing directly over top. That caused horrible flooding and I didn't realized that was the problem. I altered the grill to be a simple copper wire criss cross, stuck a SS scrubber over it, then my Ceramic Packing and then I was able to run nearly 3x the power without any flooding. I had terrible flooding before this modification. Making mistakes and learning more every day.

[ideasinbeer]

Hmmmm looks like I may be nearing the end of my search.

Raschig Rings, a couple spindles and a simple mesh/strainer to hold it seems to be a good way to go that won't keep me up at night.

Spindles are easy enough to get from a variety of suppliers. Now to find Ring suppliers that do bulk.

[NineInchNails]

Hmmmm looks like I may be nearing the end of my search.

Raschig Rings, a couple spindles and a simple mesh/strainer to hold it seems to be a good way to go that won't keep me up at night.

Spindles are easy enough to get from a variety of suppliers. Now to find Ring suppliers that do bulk.

I'd put the rings over top of a SS scrubber so it doesn't cause restrictions & flooding.

[ideasinbeer]

Noted. Many thanks.

Edit: But what holds up all that weight?

[NineInchNails]

Noted. Many thanks.

Edit: But what holds up all that weight?

It doesn't weigh much. For my 3" column I made one of these copper disks with a copper wire criss cross for each segment of my column. I chopped a piece of 3" pipe and bent it a little to make a homemade snap ring. It holds the disk perfectly, never moves, but easily removed. I then stick a scrubber over that then 1/2" Ceramic Packing on top of the scrubber.

An easy, but less convenient way is to make the same copper ring, but use a Still Dragon Plate Gasket. This will secure the plate at a Tri-Clamp joint. You would just have to be careful removing your column or everything comes out the bottom. That's one reason why I broke my tall column into 4 different length segments and used the snap rings, so I can take it apart piece by piece and it's more modular.

I've seen some people make an easier ring completely out of copper wire, no flattened out copper like I did.

[ideasinbeer]

NiN - that's one elegant solution. For the extension I'm thinking a couple of joints as well for pretty much the same reasons.


I wish I was handy instead of handsome.

[NineInchNails]

NiN - that's one elegant solution. For the extension I'm thinking a couple of joints as well for pretty much the same reasons.


I wish I was handy instead of handsome.

Well if you have tin snips, small air compressor, die grinder, angle grinder, a Dremel and basic tools like that, you can make a whole lot of different things. A soldering torch, silver solder, flux too of course. You can be handy and handsome

[ideasinbeer]

I see a string of characters, but I only read some foreign language. Perhaps Greek?

[Evil Wizard]

I've been running 6" columns for a couple years now and I've posted a solution on here a few times but it hasn't caught on.

What I'm using are basically marbles made of expanded clay. They are very light compared to raschig or glass or scoria. They are rough and irregular on the outside, improving surface area. They are inert and haven't noticed any off flavours in years. I've had hootch made with them chemically tested at the LCBO. The difference between baked clay and ceramic (raschig) and lava rock (scoria)? You tell me but it's not much.

I support them on a disk cut from perforated stainless sheet clamped in between ferrules. I forget the hole size but its too large to use as a sieve plate. Cheaply found from a metal off-cut supplier.

Oh yeah, they are cheap and found everywhere. Go to a hydroponics store. Certain brand names are geolite, hydroton. $80CAD will get you a lifetime supply. I've seen 50L bags for $25USD.

[ideasinbeer]

Evil Wizard,

I just saw your post tonight. I'm going to have a look.

[metalsmith]

6 inch pipe with 6 perforated plates should do neutral ok. My experience is I could not cool it well enough. The power to fill the plates took bunches of cooling for the product condenser. 60 degree cooling water could nor fow fast enough to stay ahead of the plates,

[hellbilly007]

I wouldn't call 6 plates "neutral". More like refined or lightly flavored. Unless you made 3+ passes through the 6 plates

[Yummyrum]

My experience is I could not cool it well enough. The power to fill the plates took bunches of cooling for the product condenser. 60 degree cooling water could nor fow fast enough to stay ahead of the plates,

I believe this would be a serious concern to think about unless one has assess to cheap plentiful water .
I have a 2000 litre tank and even in winter I am having problems completing a strip and reflux ( for neutral ) on my 4” still . I can get by if I strip one weekend and let the tank cool before doing the spirit running the reflux the next weekend .

[LWTCS]

When you split that production schedule into a pair of weekends, does your reservoir otherwise hold up well yummy?

[Yummyrum]

Just . Not measured the temp in the tank but It would make a nice Jacuzzi By the end of the run .

One of my motivations for building a continuous stripper was to reduce the water needed during stripping ... and it did make a significant difference to the amount of water used .
Whoever , its the long hours of refluxing at high power that really heats the tank .I’ve had to compromise on AVB to get the job done .
I’m planning on building a a much better RC so hopefully I can squeeze a few more degrees out of the tank .

[Evil Wizard]

edited for redundancy

[Twisted Brick]

I have a 6" column and I use geolite/hydroton. Porous, light, cheap and irregular sized. Pick it up at a hydroponic store.

Just curious, EW,

What would you say is the average size of the hydroton? A quick glance at these arouses interest.

Twisted

[Evil Wizard]

I just used calipers and I'd say 1 cm plus or minus 2mm. It nests real well and lifting a 6" spool 18" long full of it is no problem.

As it gets used over the years and friction rubs at it, it actually exposes the hollow bubbles inside giving you more surface area!