3" CCVM - How much alcohol is in it

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gsugg
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3" CCVM - How much alcohol is in it

Post by gsugg »

I've had a 30 gallon copper pot I built and a 2" x 36" CCVM for some time. I recently bit the bullet and put together a 3" x 48" stainless modular CCVM for an upgrade. My question is how do you calculate how much alcohol does it take to fill a 3" x 48" column filled with lava rock. I know it's a needle in a haystack question, just looking for an estimate. Thanks guys.
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Re: 3" CCVM - How much alcohol is in it

Post by Expat »

V=πr2h for the height of the packing. Guess maybe 50% of that volume will be the packing, of which half of that might contain liquid alcohol at flood....

Basically impossible to calculate. Perhaps if you could weight the column in progress...
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Re: 3" CCVM - How much alcohol is in it

Post by Deplorable »

Can't you just cap the bottom of you column, and fill it then measure the contents?
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Re: 3" CCVM - How much alcohol is in it

Post by still_stirrin »

Your question is very nebulous. It’s hard to answer such a “gray” question. Perhaps some clarity will help...

Are you really looking for the input power necessary to run it?

If so, then then boiler charge has some influence on the number. For a 3” column, you will need 3.5 to 6.0 kW of input to run it nominally with a 10% ABV wash. Note, more heat input with enough reflux condenser knockdown will improve purity at the spout because you’ll have a high reflux ratio.

Are you concerned about the “alcohol hold up” of a 3” x 48” scoria-packed column, as in a “flooded column”?

If so, then I’d say that it will hold roughly 1/2 liter. But that shouldn’t be a problem because as the run progresses (especially with a high reflux ratio), it will push the alcohol up and over to the product condenser. That’s how reflux separates the volatiles from water. Eventually, you’ll have the throughput slow to a stop as the alcohol is stripped from the wash.

By this time, the column won’t be “holding” any alcohol, or at least nothing worth continuing to run. If you continue to collect, you’ll get a rapid falling %ABV measurement at the spout, from >90% to <20% in a single jar. And, consider that when your measurement is this low at the spout, the alcohol is immeasureable in the boiler.

Are you concerned about how much alcohol is need to start the reflux operation?

If so, it will start as the saturation temperature (boiling point) of the wash is reached and volatiles (including the alcohol) begins to work its way up the column. As that happens, the reflux condenser will condense the (slightly less) volatiles and they’ll travel back down the column. As the falling condensate interacts with the rising hot vapors, especially in contact with the packing surface, the condensate will “steal” heat and the higher volatiles will again vaporize, while less volatiles will continue back down the column.

This creates the reflux action: reboiling, condensation, reboiling, condensation, etc. until the higher volatiles (foreshots and early heads) are accumulated at the top ore even passed over to the product condenser and the outlet.

If you’re concerned about how much “liquid” is held up during this “stacking process”, again I would estimate this to be roughly 1/2 liter for your column packed with scoria (lava rocks). Are you concerned about the “weight” of this imposed on the boiler lid?

If so, the weight will be a small addition when compared to the weight of the column and scoria and the water weight in the reflux condenser. Those will be significant, especially if you’re using stainless spools and fittings. They’ll be strong...but heavy.

So, summarizing the (long-winded) post, it is hard to “guess” why you’re asking what you asked to better understand what it is that you’re really asking. Nebulous, huh?
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Re: 3" CCVM - How much alcohol is in it

Post by Deplorable »

still_stirrin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:08 am Your question is very nebulous. It’s hard to answer such a “gray” question. Perhaps some clarity will help...

Are you really looking for the input power necessary to run it?

If so, then then boiler charge has some influence on the number. For a 3” column, you will need 3.5 to 6.0 kW of input to run it nominally with a 10% ABV wash. Note, more heat input with enough reflux condenser knockdown will improve purity at the spout because you’ll have a high reflux ratio.

Are you concerned about the “alcohol hold up” of a 3” x 48” scoria-packed column, as in a “flooded column”?

If so, then I’d say that it will hold roughly 1/2 liter. But that shouldn’t be a problem because as the run progresses (especially with a high reflux ratio), it will push the alcohol up and over to the product condenser. That’s how reflux separates the volatiles from water. Eventually, you’ll have the throughput slow to a stop as the alcohol is stripped from the wash.

By this time, the column won’t be “holding” any alcohol, or at least nothing worth continuing to run. If you continue to collect, you’ll get a rapid falling %ABV measurement at the spout, from >90% to <20% in a single jar. And, consider that when your measurement is this low at the spout, the alcohol is immeasureable in the boiler.

Are you concerned about how much alcohol is need to start the reflux operation?

If so, it will start as the saturation temperature (boiling point) of the wash is reached and volatiles (including the alcohol) begins to work its way up the column. As that happens, the reflux condenser will condense the (slightly less) volatiles and they’ll travel back down the column. As the falling condensate interacts with the rising hot vapors, especially in contact with the packing surface, the condensate will “steal” heat and the higher volatiles will again vaporize, while less volatiles will continue back down the column.

This creates the reflux action: reboiling, condensation, reboiling, condensation, etc. until the higher volatiles (foreshots and early heads) are accumulated at the top ore even passed over to the product condenser and the outlet.

If you’re concerned about how much “liquid” is held up during this “stacking process”, again I would estimate this to be roughly 1/2 liter for your column packed with scoria (lava rocks). Are you concerned about the “weight” of this imposed on the boiler lid?

If so, the weight will be a small addition when compared to the weight of the column and scoria and the water weight in the reflux condenser. Those will be significant, especially if you’re using stainless spools and fittings. They’ll be strong...but heavy.

So, summarizing the (long-winded) post, it is hard to “guess” why you’re asking what you asked to better understand what it is that you’re really asking. Nebulous, huh?
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Re: 3" CCVM - How much alcohol is in it

Post by gsugg »

still_stirrin,

I agree its very nebulous. My main intent is to do some comparisons of running at equilibrium for a decent time verses slowly heating up and bleeding off first stuff up the column. (Think Dad300's thoughts on no need to let it sit at equilibrium in the beginning). This 3" x 48' stainless column can be run on a 13 gallon milk pot, or on a 30 gallon copper boiler I built. Most of my washes are 8% and was curious if all the alcohol would be in the column like Dad300 suggests might be the case. I'm also planning on testing a charge of low wines in the 13 gallon as well so i know there will be plenty of potential alcohol there.
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