3” vm build, could use advice

[passiton]

Being the novice distiller that I am, I would think or thought that a thermometer be very useful. I do not see how it could hurt. Why would you not want one?

[OtisT]

Passiton, yes the side position will work just fine for your thermometer port and is a way better place for convenience when you want to read the temp. That side position is where I place all that I have built. Just keep any liquid falling reflux from touching the probe, as your diagram shows.

Deplorable, there is a very good reason for having a vapor thermometer on a fractioning column. It tells you how well you are getting separation, and helps you tune power input and reflux for the rate and level of separation you are trying to achieve. Thermometers are unnecessary on a pot still, but I would not run my column without one.

Otis

[StillerBoy]

I could use some advice on thermometer placement. Most designs I see have the thermometer coming in from the top of the tee on an angle towards the column.

Personally I prefer the temp probe placement in the column itself, about 1.5" just above the packing being used.. the reason for the location, is that it provide the ability to manage the reflux ratio for purity and the provide info to maintain a stable take off rate..

Temp probe at the top of column is only useful when refluxing otherwise a temp probe is of no use or value..

Mars

[passiton]

Thanks guys, so is a blind port ( sealed tube that probe slides into ) the best way to go ?

[passiton]

Mocked up

Here is a poor photo of it mocked up.
Do you guys see anything that should be changed?
Would reflux centering rings be of use at column sections?
How much packing should go in this and what kind would you recommend.

[Deplorable]

Good to know Otis. Thanks for that. I hadn't planned to put one in on my T. I guess I have more work to do, and more reflux reading to do as well. I dont recall seeing one on a CCVM build, so I hadn't planned for it.

[StillerBoy]

Would reflux centering rings be of use at column sections?

I'm not an advocate of using centering rings, as I view them as providing no value on small column used..

Mars

[passiton]

Thanks, what about thermo port, is blind port the way to go?

Here i

s a pic of this thing standing up. The pic angle makes it look crooked but it’s straight and sits good on empty boiler.

[Yummyrum]

Well done .Looks great .
However with such a large valve , be prepared for very touchy adjstment . You won’t be grabbing the handle and turning it , but rather tapping it a nats dick ..... I know , I had one .

[passiton]

Duly noted yummy rum, it was not my first choice ( needle valve would be great) but the price was right.
I Have some questions above that I could use advice on and more to add.

At some point I will be capping this with valve removed to use as pot still.
Question;
Is 3/8th “ to small for final product collection in either vm configuration or pot still? Or should it be more like 1/2” I have to reduce product condenser to something smaller just not sure what is to small or just right for fast runs in future as this is a 3” column.

[passiton]

C7E4D72B-85A0-4173-9219-ED5D11653012.jpeg (33.8 KiB) Viewed 2357 times

Well Unless I hear different from you guys, I’m going with final condenser reduction Fromm 2” to 1-1/2 to 3/8. And a detachable parrot. Something like this. It’s just the starting point.

[passiton]

Ideas are coming to me about what to do with this.

1BDAA09B-048A-4ED7-9B86-BA8F319FC31D.jpeg (34.2 KiB) Viewed 2356 times

[OtisT]

Passiton. Regarding the Thermowell or not, I personally don’t think it makes a difference. I prefer no thermowell.

If you have a short 3” spool to replace the sight glass with, to create space for your RC, I would do that and move the sight glass just below the tee/above your packing. At least move it temporarily until you have your run power dialed in. Pack the column below the sight glass up to the very top so you can see the top of your packing from the sight glass installed above. When running the still you can see when your column is flooding and how much. Also with this glass placement you can see how much and where your liquid reflux is falling.

I don’t use centering rings myself but I do direct liquid reflux off of my RC coils to flow straight down the center and past the probe and VM port. I usually direct the flow with a small wrap of copper mesh on the coils, like a pointy beard hanging down. The beard helps reduce liquid reflux from being thrown in all directions, so it does not splash your thermometer probe or into the VM port.

Otis

[WithOrWithoutU2]

5B783885-5D25-4FBE-B802-D2C4AB257427.jpeg15742447-BD0A-499D-96C7-DB447912BC3F.jpegI could use some advice on thermometer placement. Most designs I see have the thermometer coming in from the top of the tee on an angle towards the column.
Questions;
Could the thermometer come straight in from the side of tee close to the take off point, instead of from the top on an angle? Does it matter?
Should it be or can it be a blind port?

For functionally testing the vapor temp I do not think it matters.

[Yummyrum]

Regarding the thermo port. I just soldered a short stub of 3/8” into the side of the Tee . I’m not into thermowells. Just wrap a fuckton of teflon tape around the shaft of the thermometer and push it in . My theory is that the shaft of the thermometer should be in the direct vapour and insulated from the still body.... afterall , its the vapour we want to measure , not the still body temp .

[passiton]

I thank you all for the fast response as I am building this in real time, when I have time. I found this post and like the idea of no blind port but using a compression nut and fittings.
[url https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 7#p7082523][/url]

[passiton]

Otist, I can definitely move the glass to under the tee. I will need to get 2 more ferrules and cut one of the columns to match the 6” glass section. Then add ferrules, once I do that I can swap the sections around and keep same height, glass portion could then go anywhere in column if wanted or needed.

What specifically should I be looking for inside glass, with it just under tee and column packed up to and just below glass.? I know you said flooding but could u described what would be normal looking and not normal? Thanks.

[passiton]

0C88CE68-FD87-4D4F-B7AA-27652551F5B6.jpeg (31.74 KiB) Viewed 2314 times

So I made this yesterday to slide on the und of the product condenser and will stay there with set screws. I will call it the pre collection cup. The output end is 1/2” and can be used in two ways.
1st would be flex or rigid tube down to collection jar on table.
2nd is I’m making copper kick stand that goes to the floor, it is 1 1/4” with 1/2” pipe and coupler on inside that will slide over the end on the pre collection cup. It will have a copper shelf that slides up and down on the kick stand. The 1/2 pipe comes out the side to the parrot sitting on shelf or can be used without parrot.

I know none of this is necessary, there is no need for kick stand other than a place to hold parrot and a jar, but it is fun for me, keeps me busy and out of trouble.

[OtisT]

Otist, I can definitely move the glass to under the tee. I will need to get 2 more ferrules and cut one of the columns to match the 6” glass section. Then add ferrules, once I do that I can swap the sections around and keep same height, glass portion could then go anywhere in column if wanted or needed.

What specifically should I be looking for inside glass, with it just under tee and column packed up to and just below glass.? I know you said flooding but could u described what would be normal looking and not normal? Thanks.

I’m gonna start an argument here because some folks don’t agree with what I’m gonna say about flooding. Sorry. With the sight glass just above the packing you can see if flooding is occurring and how bad it is. flooding is when a bed of liquid forms on top of your packing, and is a result of too much power and/or packing that is too tight. IMHO a little bit of flooding is not harmful, but too much can mess with separation, make your system less efficient, and increases pressure in your boiler. Seeing when you flood and how much flooding you get at various power levels will help you find the top power operating range of your column and can help you make packing density decisions.

The other benefit to that position for the sight glass is seeing your liquid reflux. You want it dropping on your packing and not just running down the column wall, and coil condensers can throw a lot of reflux on the column walls. With the sight glass you can see relatively how much reflux is running down the walls vs what is falling on top of your packing. If I don’t see a good stream coming down the center, I can adjust my reflux beard so it falls straight down.

Otis

[shadylane]

Regarding the thermo port. I just soldered a short stub of 3/8” into the side of the Tee . I’m not into thermowells. Just wrap a fuckton of teflon tape around the shaft of the thermometer and push it in . My theory is that the shaft of the thermometer should be in the direct vapour and insulated from the still body.... afterall , its the vapour we want to measure , not the still body temp .

I do the same

[passiton]

Otis, thank you very much for the detailed explanation and experience. I will be moving the sight glass once I get some more ferrules.
Shady, thank you for conformation on thermo wall.
I still have a lot to do on this and hope to complete it in next 30 days. Sizing elements or element is also on my list. This will be electric 220v

[passiton]

Any thoughts on element size for ssvr control? 15.5 gallon boiler. 220v

[MartinCash]

Why do you need a thermometer? What bearing does the temperature of the vapor have on your output? You either have the "valve" open, partially open, or closed. Vapor is either leaving the column, or going back to the boiler as condensate, and stacking fractions in the column.

I personally find the thermometer in my CCVM a very good indicator of impending tails. It allows me to turn down the take-off rate (and increase the reflux ratio) to maximise yield of hearts.

[passiton]

I personally find the thermometer in my CCVM a very good indicator of impending tails. It allows me to turn down the take-off rate (and increase the reflux ratio) to maximise yield of hearts.

I agree and definitely planned on one, I was just unsure of best location.

Any thoughts on element size for this thing??

[passiton]

Worked on this today while I wait for some parts. It was fun to make but Definitely not necessary and probably hard to clean, but hey it looks cool and kept me busy.

[passiton]

Still have to make last bend on parrot inlet and bring it above the cup

[passiton]

Did get this about completed, decided to go with a 5,500w element. Yes that is a pid, I think I feel your blood pressure rising from here, lol.
Read on- the pid Is NOT for the still. I also build electric smokers and need a controller for an old one. This controller will be used both for still and smoker. When using it for the still, I turn the pid to manual on, that closes the SSR and then there is a SSVR in series that takes over and I can turn down power to that 5,500w element when needed with the potentiometer. Plus I can then just use probe to see temp if needed. When I want to use controller for the smoker I put pid in auto and make sure potentiometer is set to zero ohms. Pretty easy
And for 19 bucks I added the cool little meter that sees incoming line voltage and outgoing watts,amps,power.

[Yummyrum]

Very nice .
But it is good practice to ground ( Earth) all exposed metal in a plastic enclosure . I see no earth wires fitted to the Potentiometer or the heatsinks on the SSR .Nor the fan guard or temp probe socket.

[passiton]

Yes yummy, you have a good eye and I appreciate you looking at it. I just haven’t got that far yet and was out wire. Did not think about ground for temp probe, not sure how I would do that but I could come up with something, Thanks

[passiton]

If
I ever get this thing going and cleaned out. Do you guys have a personal favorite vodka style recipe. I have read what seems to be popular, such as the Birdwatchers and the All-brand. But I would love to hear some favorites that would work well with this contraption.