3” vm build, could use advice

[zed255]

You may find very different behaviour with alcohol. Water steam won't want to travel down the VM branch where alcohol vapour will. This is why a VM almost shuts itself off once the boiler is exhausted of alcohol.

[OtisT]

My understanding is that Water vapor goes up and Alcohol vapor goes down, so I’m not surprised by your observation when trying to distill water. Otis

Oops. Sent at same time as Zed.

[passiton]

I have been meaning to cut one of those bottom column sections same size as glass section (6”) and add tri ferrules to cut ends so I can swap them, thus having glass under the tee as suggested. Do you thing I should cut that section 3” longer than the glass (9”) This would put bottom of the coil 6” above the top of tee take off. Or you think it’s just because my boiler only had water it and water won’t travel down like you said. All the reading I did said 3” above take off for coil should be good, but I have no clue. So I guess what I’m asking is, I’m going to cut that column anyway, should I make it longer than glass section it’s replacing, raising coil height?

[passiton]

You may find very different behaviour with alcohol. Water steam won't want to travel down the VM branch where alcohol vapour will. This is why a VM almost shuts itself off once the boiler is exhausted of alcohol.

I totally believe you on this, it never really crossed my mind, but I only want to cut that column once, is there and advantage or disadvantage to making the glass replacement section a few inches taller than the glass section, thus raising coil.

[zed255]

I don't believe so, as long as the RC is above the vapour branch it shouldn't matter within reasonable limits.

[passiton]

Thanks zed.

Well I guess it was a good test day. No leaks although I want to get some fittings for the water lines. The coil knocked down all water vapor at the top with keg at full boil and 5,000w element going full blast for 3 hours. So I guess it’s on to cutting column so I can move the glass and make a cheap sugar wash for next test. Just sucks it so cold here, I only run wood burner when I’m out there. I have to remove water from everything when done or it will freeze and break. But on the plus side, I have lots of free snow or ice to keep cooling water cold but not to cold.

[passiton]

[url][ just found this on YouTube by accident and figured I’d watch it. I loved his small glass column,it’s worth a short peek.

[passiton]

Passiton. Regarding the Thermowell or not, I personally don’t think it makes a difference. I prefer no thermowell.

If you have a short 3” spool to replace the sight glass with, to create space for your RC, I would do that and move the sight glass just below the tee/above your packing. At least move it temporarily until you have your run power dialed in. Pack the column below the sight glass up to the very top so you can see the top of your packing from the sight glass installed above. When running the still you can see when your column is flooding and how much. Also with this glass placement you can see how much and where your liquid reflux is falling.

I don’t use centering rings myself but I do direct liquid reflux off of my RC coils to flow straight down the center and past the probe and VM port. I usually direct the flow with a small wrap of copper mesh on the coils, like a pointy beard hanging down. The beard helps reduce liquid reflux from being thrown in all directions, so it does not splash your thermometer probe or into the VM port.

Otis

I did finally cut one of the columns to match the the glass section but added one inch.

[passiton]

I needed a bigger fermenter, been using 5gal buckets. Just picked this 50 gallon food grade drum up cheap. It was used for olives. Now I need a way to heat it. I read on this site about using aquarium heaters. And I like the idea one guy had about putting the heater in a 2” copper pipe, sealed at the bottom and filled with water. The heater goes inside the pipe and the pipe goes in the fermenter, like a double boiler. The idea he said was in case the heater broke it won’t contaminate the wash and solids won’t burn to it. I think I’ll try it.

[passiton]

I had a hard time picking between the the death wish recipe and bird watchers. I think I’ll go with bird watchers for first run just because I won’t have to boil any wheat germ.

Question; I’m still a little confused on some yeasts seems most out here like bakers yeast and get that. But I do have some red star distillers yeast I would like to use up. Would using it in bird watchers recipe be ok? Also what is the difference between distillers yeast (dady) and turbo yeast? Is turbo yeast just dady with nutrients? I have read about yeast till my head hurts and I can’t find the answer to my last question.

[Yummyrum]

Turbo is a specific strain of yeast that was breed for the Ethanol fuel Industry . Its whole purpose is to survive in a vrt high ABV wash to squeeze the last drop out of as much sugar as possible . As a result , it produces heaps of bad tasting byproducts . Not an issue in a car engine , but horrible in a drink . And yes it also has a pile of neutrients added to help ot achieve its goal .

Regarding washes , If its a cleaning , do a Birdwatchers , but it’s not the best drinking wash . Get used to boiling wheat bran . The better tasting washes use some of it .

[passiton]

Turbo is a specific strain of yeast that was breed for the Ethanol fuel Industry . Its whole purpose is to survive in a vrt high ABV wash to squeeze the last drop out of as much sugar as possible . As a result , it produces heaps of bad tasting byproducts . Not an issue in a car engine , but horrible in a drink . And yes it also has a pile of neutrients added to help ot achieve its goal .

Regarding washes , If its a cleaning , do a Birdwatchers , but it’s not the best drinking wash . Get used to boiling wheat bran . The better tasting washes use some of it .

Thanks yummy, I do want some to drink. This still should be clean by now, I think. I soaked all parts in vinegar and water plus scrubbed every thing out using a new toilet brush( lol fit perfectly) plus I distilled a crap load of water after all that. So I’m guessing it’s clean, what do you think? If you say yes I’m gonna do your suggestion of death wish. Just ordered a heater to keep things at temp.
Would dady be ok for death wish?

[MartinCash]

I can vouch that deathwish is quite nice straight.

[passiton]

Death wish it is then. Can anyone comment on dady yeast?

[zed255]

The only thing I see is hit or miss on the performance of DADY at times. I do a tweak of Deathwish for my sugar washes and can say it works well. Bakers yeast performs just fine, Fleishmans ADY for me has never let me down.

[Deplorable]

Turbo is a specific strain of yeast that was breed for the Ethanol fuel Industry . Its whole purpose is to survive in a vrt high ABV wash to squeeze the last drop out of as much sugar as possible . As a result , it produces heaps of bad tasting byproducts . Not an issue in a car engine , but horrible in a drink . And yes it also has a pile of neutrients added to help ot achieve its goal .

Regarding washes , If its a cleaning , do a Birdwatchers , but it’s not the best drinking wash . Get used to boiling wheat bran . The better tasting washes use some of it .

Thanks yummy, I do want some to drink. This still should be clean by now, I think. I soaked all parts in vinegar and water plus scrubbed every thing out using a new toilet brush( lol fit perfectly) plus I distilled a crap load of water after all that. So I’m guessing it’s clean, what do you think? If you say yes I’m gonna do your suggestion of death wish. Just ordered a heater to keep things at temp.
Would dady be ok for death wish?

It's not clean until you've ran a acid and an alcohol throught it. There are (or may be) some contaminants from the welding and assembly processes they may not be solvable in hot soapy water.
A 50/50 solution of vinegar and water run followed by a sacrificial alcohol run to get acidic vapors and alcohol vapors into all the nooks and crannies is highly recommended before consuming any products from you new still. It doesn't have to be much. Just enough to get about 15 minutes of steam from each through the still.

[passiton]

I appreciate the feed back on cleaning. I plan to make a big batch of DW and use some for cleaning and then rest for drinks. I’m a somewhat of a beginner when it comes to pot stills and absolutely a newb to a vm still. Please keep that in mind for my questions. I understand the process of making the recipe of DW but I’m curious as to the distilling process you guys use that have made it, and any variations of the recipe you find better.

I’m mostly interested in, after discarding heads at what percent do you stop collecting in your stripping run. And at what percent do you stop collecting in your spirit run for the good drinkables? Or a short description of your strip and spirt run on DW. Sorry for asking, maybe it should be in another thread.

[OtisT]

I typically stop my strip once I’m somewhere below collecting at 10%. I don’t directly measure ABV output. I go by vapor temp, which is around 208F on my rig. Hitting an exact number is not important. There are other methods too.

When to stop a spirit run is a bit more nuanced. As a rule, I end my run when I know I am into tails and am past my cut point. The easiest method I have found is to go by production rate.

One easy way to spot when I am into tails is to watch my production rate and to look for a significant/noticeable drop in the production rate. When that rate drops, I am into tails. This slowdown in production comes fast on a VM. Night and day, as it almost shuts itself down. When pot stilling you will see a slow decrease in production throughout the entire run (assuming you leave your power set at one point) and this fill time change accelerates fast when you are into tails (past my cutoff point.). Example: Using jars I can see my fill times go from 9 minutes to 11 minutes over most of a run, then when I get into tails the next jar takes 12 minutes, 13 minutes for the next, 15 minutes next, etc.

You should be able to smell this cutoff point too. Use the production rate method and make note of the smell when you see the rate drop. You will likely become comfortable going by smell after observing this over time.

Otis

[passiton]

I typically stop my strip once I’m somewhere below collecting at 10%. I don’t directly measure ABV output. I go by vapor temp, which is around 208F on my rig. Hitting an exact number is not important. There are other methods too.

When to stop a spirit run is a bit more nuanced. As a rule, I end my run when I know I am into tails and am past my cut point. The easiest method I have found is to go by production rate.

One easy way to spot when I am into tails is to watch my production rate and to look for a significant/noticeable drop in the production rate. When that rate drops, I am into tails. This slowdown in production comes fast on a VM. Night and day, as it almost shuts itself down. When pot stilling you will see a slow decrease in production throughout the entire run (assuming you leave your power set at one point) and this fill time change accelerates fast when you are into tails (past my cutoff point.). Example: Using jars I can see my fill times go from 9 minutes to 11 minutes over most of a run, then when I get into tails the next jar takes 12 minutes, 13 minutes for the next, 15 minutes next, etc.

You should be able to smell this cutoff point too. Use the production rate method and make note of the smell when you see the rate drop. You will likely become comfortable going by smell after observing this over time.

Otis

This is just what I needed, thank you so much Otis. I’ll post some still pics this weekend in pot configuration and vm. I’m hoping to start the DW wash this Sunday if the heater comes in. I can’t wait to run some alcohol through this new still.

[passiton]

Well I made the DW x4 so 24gal. With starting sp of 1.074, just waiting for temp to cool and pitch yeast. If all goes well it should give me a lot of product to play with this new still.

[shadylane]

My thinking
A pound of boiled wheat germ in 6 gallons not only makes a good yeast nutrient.
There's enough to act as a pH buffer

[passiton]

My thinking
A pound of boiled wheat germ in 6 gallons not only makes a good yeast nutrient.
There's enough to act as a pH buffer

I definitely believe that, this fermentation is going great so far.

[passiton]

The death wish has been fermenting for 6.5 days now, the SP is at 1.001 and it’s still active. Plan to let it go a day or two more then rack it, let things settle and run it this next weekend.
It was a nice day today so I set the still up for some pics as it will likely never look this good in the future with use.

[passiton]

Pot still mode. Not sure how many columns to run in this mode? But this was my guess.

[passiton]

Vm set up

[passiton]

Vm mode with table

[frostbite]

He could see the temperature rising when he gets to the end of the run would be a good enough reason to have a thermometer.

[kimbodious]

He could see the temperature rising when he gets to the end of the run would be a good enough reason to have a thermometer.

There are signs you can use that tell you are towards the end of the run; eg fogging of the sight tower, sudden decrease in output, sudden decrease in visible reflux, slight whiffs of tails. It is easy to get buy using this design, like I do, without a thermometer.

[kimbodious]

Pot still mode. Not sure how many columns to run in this mode? But this was my guess.

1255F6E8-7C97-4EDD-A8E1-E4969B1D671F.jpeg

I would put the sight tower immediately after the boiler and use a much shorter column in a pot still configuration.

[passiton]

Thanks guys for the advice, I really do appreciate you.
There is a port in the tee for a thermometer. It’s not a blind port. Thanks for advice on pot column length, I have several sizes to pick from so I will shorten it up and move the glass when I do some stripping runs it this weekend. I’m also making a much simpler parrot should I decide to use one, the one in the pic I don’t think is very practical.
Any way the 24 gallons of Death Wish has finished dry, it’s racked out to settle and waiting for me to run this weekend, hope all goes well. LoL

Sorry, Pics aren’t great due to size restrictions and my resizing skills.