Ditching the T500 column

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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Dathhu
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Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

Hi everyone,

Bit of background info:

Been brewing AG beer for quite some time, played around with distilling over the years with borrowed equipment. Usually store bought stuff, mainly reflux designs.

Managed to pick up a T500 setup 2nd hand relatively cheaply a while back, ran some of the usual turbo crap and wasn't overly happy.

Tried some birdwatchers out, learned about cutting heads and tails and was very impressed with the results.

I've since bought a voltage controller and 2" pot head to fit onto the T500 and am ultra happy with it, made some damn good gin (thanks Odin!), and just started on some rum, with the results looking promising. The shotgun is already paying its way on some fast stripping runs, using WAY less water than the T500 and half the time.

Just wondering what everyone would recommend to replace the old T500 column? After stripping it out and looking at what its actually made from I'm really not wanting to run it anymore. I'd still like to be able to make some neutral occasionally, if only for gin.

For reference, my pot still is a 2" X 500mm column with 2" shotgun condenser. All connections are tri clamp, making it easy enough to swap bits in and out as needed.

I'm thinking a packed column, maybe add another 500mm section with a dephleg? This would probably be easy enough to run for me as it would in theory work similarly to the t500. Or would you recommend another design? My metal working skills are not the best, probably looking at something off the shelf unless it's really simple to build.

Thanks everyone,
Dan
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Bushman
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Bushman »

Sounds like a decent plan, I ran a keg boiler and 2” Diameter column VM for multiple years but a 10-11 gallon boiler charge to all day to run. I currently run a 4” Diameter CM in a third of the time and the CM has more versatility than my VM.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

Bushman wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:15 am Sounds like a decent plan, I ran a keg boiler and 2” Diameter column VM for multiple years but a 10-11 gallon boiler charge to all day to run. I currently run a 4” Diameter CM in a third of the time and the CM has more versatility than my VM.
Cheers for the fast reply Bushman,

So you'd go CM over VM? Time is one of the problems I have with the T500 at the moment, but I hope it would be faster with the bigger condenser... Haven't done a lot of reading on vapour management stills, but I can see some bottlenecks which would slow it down some.

What type of versatility are you getting? Faster output? Semi pot still runs?

Would running a wider column help, even though it would be coming from an initial 2" hole?

Sorry for all the questions, still learning this hobby :)
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Bushman »

A VM is basically for neutrals and I could hit 96% with my CM my best is 92%, close enough for my liqueurs. I like the CM because I can also dial it in for my whiskey and rums which I could not do with a VM.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by CoogeeBoy »

Dathhu wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:02 am Hi everyone,

Bit of background info:

I've since bought a voltage controller and 2" pot head to fit onto the T500 and am ultra happy with it, made some damn good gin (thanks Odin!), and just started on some rum, with the results looking promising. The shotgun is already paying its way on some fast stripping runs, using WAY less water than the T500 and half the time.

Thanks everyone,
Dan
wold love to see a picture of your current set up.
Taking a break while I get a new still completed....
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

PXL_20210112_143240358.jpg
Current pot still head, next to old t500 for size comparison
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Yummyrum »

I’d agree with Bushy that your plan to have 2” packed about 1 metre is a good idea . LOl The CM verses VM ... well .. I’m in the VM camp . Sure , I see CM can have its advantages , but when it comes to ease of operation , VM’s the winner .

I converted my LM/VM still to CM .... just to see what all the fuss was about . Took me two frustrating runs to convert it back to VM .

Built a Flute .... standard CM design with a Deflagmator .....it fully sucks :

Stuck a VM head in it .... piece of piss to run . :thumbup:

If you got stable power ..or gas , no breeze , plenty of constant temp water for cooling and a high quality needle valve , then knock your self out with CM

Me, I’m done with the frustration of CM
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

Just scored some csst off Amazon relatively cheaply, 6 foot by 3/8, delivered to Au for about $30. I'm guessing it was a end of stock sale, happy to nab it :)

Should be more than enough for my 2" column, and should hopefully be usable if I upgrade the boiler and column as well.

After some reading and experience with running the T500 I'm thinking about ditching the CM design. Trying to choose between CCVM and LM/VM. I'm probably not going to do many neutral runs going forward, only enough for some gin and some infusions. Just don't know if the CCVM will produce something clean enough compared to those?

Any advice from some more experienced hands? My still is all tri clamp so any upgrades should be easy enough. I've read good things about CCVM but would like some honest feedback about how well they perform at high percentages.

Thanks,
Dathhu
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by kimbodious »

CCVM may achieve very high purity product. They are cheap and simple to construct and easy to operate.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by greggn »

Dathhu wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:46 am Just scored some csst off Amazon relatively cheaply, 6 foot by 3/8, delivered to Au for about $30.

You should have bought two ... especially if it's uncoated.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by stmaus »

Modular CCVM.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

stmaus wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:02 pm Modular CCVM.
Yeah, I think that's what I'll go with, just need a T piece, a couple pipe extentions and some extra packing. Might grab a sight glass so I can better see what's happening while I get used to running it.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Ccvm is the smartest, and best decision. My ccvm 2" pulls azeo from foreshots to tails. Take out the condensor, and it's a beautiful pot still.

A sight tower is clutch. I built my ccvm originally with no sight glasses or thermometer (still don't need a thermometer). I learned to drive it by sight, sound, feel, smell. Last year I put a sight tower above my packing, below the T. This is a great and easy addition that made my life easier. This allows me to see when my liquid level is flooded enough to cover the packing, but able to adjust(reduce power) before it reaches the bottom of the coil, and essentially puking low wines. Sight glass would work, but a tower is way easier and nicer. It already has tri clamps, so you could always move it as needed. Simple and useful :thumbup:
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Setsumi »

yes go with CCVM. easy build easy run. i run my flute/plater in CCVM and used to run a packed column in CCVM. nothing wrong with CM but as yummy said you need to control it proper. LM, yea i did that as well and Odins has interesting views but you will be happy with CCVM.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Demy »

I am also happy with CCVM.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:52 am Ccvm is the smartest, and best decision. My ccvm 2" pulls azeo from foreshots to tails. Take out the condensor, and it's a beautiful pot still.

A sight tower is clutch.
Cheers, good to know I can at least hope to obtain azeo, even if I don't get there it will still probably be better than what I could ever get off the T500.

Will probably go with a sight tower too, much easier to see what's happening than just a little window.

Time to start finding some parts :)

Thanks everyone!
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

greggn wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:30 pm
Dathhu wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:46 am Just scored some csst off Amazon relatively cheaply, 6 foot by 3/8, delivered to Au for about $30.

You should have bought two ... especially if it's uncoated.

Kinda wish I did for future builds, but it was the only one left from the seller. I'll see how it performs in the build and go from there if I upgrade.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by RC Al »

You can still add the LM to CCVM....

Jus sayin
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

Finally got around to putting this together, was waiting on parts from China for a while and have been a bit busy with work of late. Didn't get the column as tall as I wanted due to ceiling restrictions, will probably have just under a metre of packed section.

Gonna have to work out a way to support the column, it has a slight lean on it at the moment. Just did a quick run with some water just to leak test and see if it actually worked. Managed to get full reflux on plain water very easily, only a trickle was needed.

Overall, very happy so far. Next step is packing the column, vinegar and sac runs then seeing how it performs with the stripped birdwatchers I've got waiting to run.
PXL_20210721_175316991.jpg
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Deplorable »

That RC section seems excessively tall. If you could get that shorter and still house enough of the condenser to stop vapor escaping, you can get more height on the packed section. I'm short of a meter of packed column by about 6 inches. I can still get 95% at just under a liter an hour on my 2" column.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by acfixer69 »

Deplorable wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:20 am That RC section seems excessively tall. If you could get that shorter and still house enough of the condenser to stop vapor escaping, you can get more height on the packed section. I'm short of a meter of packed column by about 6 inches. I can still get 95% at just under a liter an hour on my 2" column.
That section looks to me like a shotgun condenser. If it is a valve will be needed at the take off to regulate reflux.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Deplorable »

acfixer69 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:34 am
Deplorable wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:20 am That RC section seems excessively tall. If you could get that shorter and still house enough of the condenser to stop vapor escaping, you can get more height on the packed section. I'm short of a meter of packed column by about 6 inches. I can still get 95% at just under a liter an hour on my 2" column.
That section looks to me like a shotgun condenser. If it is a valve will be needed at the take off to regulate reflux.
Maybe I misread, but he's got a CSST reflux coil in the section above the take off T. His product condenser is a shotgun.
PXL_20210721_175316991.jpg
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

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Deplorable wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:20 am That RC section seems excessively tall. If you could get that shorter and still house enough of the condenser to stop vapor escaping, you can get more height on the packed section. I'm short of a meter of packed column by about 6 inches. I can still get 95% at just under a liter an hour on my 2" column.
It probably is a bit too tall, should have got the tape measure out before buying parts, but it is what it is for now. Still, I can get the condenser down past the T and just into the sight glass with full reflux on water. Will have to see how it runs properly before I decide to make any adjustments to height.

You're right Deplorable, CCVM, shotgun for the PC.

I've got it pretty tightly coiled at the bottom, when right down anything above the sight tower was cool to the touch. Might even need to loosen up the coils I think. Even when raised up a bit it still kept everything cool.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

I'll see what I get off the wash, not needing a lot of neutral really. If it comes out clean enough for my liking I'll probably leave it as is for now. As long as I'm getting 90%+ I'll probably be happy with it. Just glad to get rid of the plastic filled T500 column.

Happy for now anyway, probably next step is a bigger, more powerful boiler to run more rum quicker in pot mode. Doesn't worry me too much if a neutral run takes up a day, hopefully won't have to do it too often.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Looking at it, I think that entire length above the t is unneeded. If I were you, I would move that to piece right below the sight tower. Shove the reflux coil right into the t, and even half way into the glass of you can manage. If it's just too short, you should only need a couple inches above the t to house the coil. Adjust coil wrap as needed.

Just my thought. Would give you all that extra tube of packing, and with no different material.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:46 pm Looking at it, I think that entire length above the t is unneeded. If I were you, I would move that to piece right below the sight tower. Shove the reflux coil right into the t, and even half way into the glass of you can manage. If it's just too short, you should only need a couple inches above the t to house the coil. Adjust coil wrap as needed.

Just my thought. Would give you all that extra tube of packing, and with no different material.
I'll see how my first proper run goes in a couple days, still have another tube the same size sitting unused ATM. Might cut one down for increased height but having not run it properly I'll wait and see.

I'd probably be still wanting some height above the T, just to make sure nothing escapes, but you're right, the column could go higher.

I'll probably take out one of the sight towers down the line as well, from the test run CCVM seems very easy to run.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

Water is one of the bigger problems as well, the less I can use the better.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I see a few potential problems ,that lid isn't designed to carry a still of that height and weight. I strongly suggest you find a way to support it before there is an accident. I own a similar boiler and know how flimsy they are. You could have saved weight by using a smaller liebig condenser.. that shot gun is overkill on a boiler with of that size and power.
Dathhu wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:25 pm As long as I'm getting 90%+ I'll probably be happy
A t500 will pull 92% when run properly , unless it does better than that you have only spent money and added a heap of weight for no other real gain.
I guess you do have the benefit of also running it pot style.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Dathhu »

Being able to run it as a pot still has saved me a bunch of time, was never happy with the first run through the T500 and had to run it again anyway.

Of late I was stripping enough to fill the boiler with low wines, then running through the T500 and was fairly happy with that. Built the column to get rid of all the plastic crap mainly, but also went slightly overkill on the PC so if I upgraded the boiler down the track there is one less thing I'd have to redo.

Also learnt more about how stills operate while putting together this one, and now have something new to play with and learn from. Might have cost a bit, but it's been fun putting it all together.
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Re: Ditching the T500 column

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Dathhu wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:33 pm was never happy with the first run through the T500 and had to run it again anyway.
True they do make a much better spirit if you run low wines in them, that was the only way I ever made spirit with mine that i was happy with. :thumbup:
That will apply even with the CCVM if you are going to be using it to make neutral.
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