I think that 700ml/hr is pretty consistent with my experience. .... but I know to track that next time!Setsumi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:41 amYes, take off speed is a key variable to minimize smearing. Slower take off with enough reflux for me.NormandieStill wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:01 amThis caused me problems on my first run on my CCVM. I found that I could pull 96% at up to 1.5L / hour, but it just pushed tails into that remaining 5%. Throttling back to around 700ml / hour vastly improved the quality...Rrmuf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:51 am I guess I don't ever get there, since I only run a 1700w heater. I do feel I get a clean neutral @96% but I am interested in how you see the two as countering each other. I *can* see how pushing too much power would make a less clean product but I would suspect the ABV would also suffer atleast a bit.
...but I'm far from being able to claim any real experience on it yet.
Max height for 2"column
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Re: Max height for 2"column
-- Rrmuf
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Re: Max height for 2"column
Leaning column of...Yummyrum wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:55 amI would disagreebluefish_dist wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:28 am I would also add, level the column so it’s vertical. If it’s at an angle it won’t work as well. I had a bracket on the wall half way up to support the column and keep it straight.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 9#p7683367
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Re: Max height for 2"column
setsumi said, 'take off speed is a key variable to minimize smearing.'
I made some terrible spirit until I slowed down.
Geoff
I made some terrible spirit until I slowed down.
Geoff
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Re: Max height for 2"column
Thanks Bill! Pot still with copper in riser. That is exactly what my set up is. Lol. You and Yummy answered my question about the insulation though.Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:28 am Gave this some though on and off today and pretty much came to the same conclusion as Yummy,
Your still is not working efficiently, my guess is its not getting enough reflux, the wet rag is increasing the amount of reflux, hence the increase in ABV.
As has already been said, you cant really call a still that cant do better that 86 % much of a reflux still......its more a pot still with a little reflux.
I am looking at building a CM head and adding it to the top of my column, just didn’t understand the need for insulation because a lack of insulation in pot still mode helps me. Now I am getting it… maybe…The insulation is about added control due to variable environmental conditions on a CM still?
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Re: Max height for 2"column
The addition of insulation keeps the column more stable. The function of the column is to exchange energy from the rising vapor to the falling liquid and create a temperature gradient. This gradient separates the constituents by molecular weight. Without insulation outside influences, drafts, hvac, doors opening can all change the heat loss to the outside and upset the balance in the column.
My hypothesis is that it effects smaller columns more. My 4” and 6” were not insulated and I would not see any variation in output. They were stable to .1 deg F. I did insulate my 2”, but quickly found it’s output to be far too slow for what I needed. 1l/hr with almost 20l of alcohol in the boiler makes for a long day. Especially when a 4” will do 4l/hr. The 6” would do 1/2 gallon every 20 min. Was limited by power on the 6”, only had 8000w.
My hypothesis is that it effects smaller columns more. My 4” and 6” were not insulated and I would not see any variation in output. They were stable to .1 deg F. I did insulate my 2”, but quickly found it’s output to be far too slow for what I needed. 1l/hr with almost 20l of alcohol in the boiler makes for a long day. Especially when a 4” will do 4l/hr. The 6” would do 1/2 gallon every 20 min. Was limited by power on the 6”, only had 8000w.
Formerly
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Re: Max height for 2"column
Insulation will have the same positive impact on any style of packed column, be it CM, VM, or LM. In each style you manage heat below the packed section, cooling above the packed section, and you want the two to interact in the column between the two with no other outside influences. Otis.Dancing4dan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:53 pm Now I am getting it… maybe…The insulation is about added control due to variable environmental conditions on a CM still?
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Re: Max height for 2"column
I agree with your hypothesis. Bigger columns have more mass so the same external influence on a small and a large diameter column will have more impact on the smaller column with less mass, even accounting for the difference in surface area.bluefish_dist wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:03 pm My hypothesis is that it effects smaller columns more. My 4” and 6” were not insulated and I would not see any variation in output. They were stable to .1 deg F. I did insulate my 2”, but quickly found it’s output to be far too slow for what I needed. 1l/hr with almost 20l of alcohol in the boiler makes for a long day. Especially when a 4” will do 4l/hr. The 6” would do 1/2 gallon every 20 min. Was limited by power on the 6”, only had 8000w.
Packing type can have an impact how much external temp changes effect the equilibrium. My copper mesh packed columns turns like a ski boat compared to my cinder rock packed column that turns like an aircraft carrier.
And of course, a stainless spool should be a bit more stable than copper if uninsulated due to the heat transfer characteristics of the two metals. Otis
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Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
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Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
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Re: Max height for 2"column
I started out thinking that you where running a refux still and that applying the wet rag upped the ABV, I now see that its a pot still.Dancing4dan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:53 pm Thanks Bill! Pot still with copper in riser. That is exactly what my set up is.
Pot stills do not need to be insulated , Packed Column Reflux stills do need insulation to work efficiently
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Re: Max height for 2"column
Also guilty Dancing4dan . … you clearly said it was a packed potstill … sorry missed that .Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:54 pmI started out thinking that you where running a refux still and that applying the wet rag upped the ABV, I now see that its a pot still.Dancing4dan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:53 pm Thanks Bill! Pot still with copper in riser. That is exactly what my set up is.
Pot stills do not need to be insulated , Packed Column Reflux stills do need insulation to work efficiently
Just AssUmed it was a Reflux still because of the topic .
Anyway , pleased yiu learning , thats the main thing . …. And so am I , read more carefully .
My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
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Re: Max height for 2"column
All good guys! Really appreciate the conversation and information.
I think my post was a bit of a hi jack leading to confusion.
This discussion has really pushed me to do a lot of reading on a dephlegmator(SP?) for a CM. I have material for a 14 inch long X 2 inch with five 1/2 vapour tubes. Probably a little short but The 4500 W element only draws 4000 W when I push it hard probably due to voltage drop. I run it off of a welder plug and 30 foot welder extension.
I’m a whiskey guy so neutrals are not really a goal but the CM setup would allow me to make a cleaner spirit run on a product I am not happy with. Mashing and fermenting are are still very steep learning curves!!
DD
I think my post was a bit of a hi jack leading to confusion.
This discussion has really pushed me to do a lot of reading on a dephlegmator(SP?) for a CM. I have material for a 14 inch long X 2 inch with five 1/2 vapour tubes. Probably a little short but The 4500 W element only draws 4000 W when I push it hard probably due to voltage drop. I run it off of a welder plug and 30 foot welder extension.
I’m a whiskey guy so neutrals are not really a goal but the CM setup would allow me to make a cleaner spirit run on a product I am not happy with. Mashing and fermenting are are still very steep learning curves!!
DD
"What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance"
Marcus Aurelius
I’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
Marcus Aurelius
I’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
Re: Max height for 2"column
Heck! I learned alot from this thread even if we were discussing the wrong thing!
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Re: Max height for 2"column
The question "Max height for 2"column" was asked in the Column section of the forum.
Anyway, there was a lot of good info for folks to find in the future.
Anyway, there was a lot of good info for folks to find in the future.