Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

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Evil_Dark
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Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Evil_Dark »

I have this already constructed on hand, the actual distance between the plates would be very close... Is this useless as it is?
What would be your recommended distance between 4in plates?
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by hellbilly007 »

As close as those plates would be that would cause quite a bit of entrainment at the speeds which plated columns are known for. I'm not sure if it could be ran slow enough.

A common plate spacing for 4" columns is 6". I believe it was said a while back a minimum of the column diameter for plate spacing.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Saltbush Bill »

4 inch "100mm" minimum......more wont hurt, to many entrainment issues if plates are closer.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Yummyrum »

By using a plate every 2nd or 3rd clamp and a Deflag before the taper you could squeeze in 3 or 4 plates . You would be running blind though .

I use 4” spacing , as said , more is better .
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Evil_Dark »

Ok thanks guys.
I may use it, like yummy said I may just skip one TC and put a plate each 2nd, this still going to give me enough plate to make it work!
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Sooner you than me trying to run plates with no sight glasses.......what you see happening on those plates can tell you many things.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by LWTCS »

100mm works just fine.
However your operating range will be less than optimal.

Much of that may also depend on your plate system.
Are you running perfs or bubble caps?
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Yummyrum »

I’m curious what that thing you have there is out of or used for .
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

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LWTCS wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:04 pm 100mm works just fine.
However your operating range will be less than optimal.

Much of that may also depend on your plate system.
Are you running perfs or bubble caps?
I was thinkimg of perf plates, I can have them laser cut to my drawings.
Is there a huge difference berween the bubble plates vs the perf ones in the end ressults or the functionning?
I already have a 5 bubble plates modular column.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Evil_Dark »

Yummyrum wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:15 pm I’m curious what that thing you have there is out of or used for .
it's a static mixer to dissolve salted liquid egg yolks that i made.
Each triclamp gasket is in fact a strainer gasket, so it creates a turbulence that helps dissolving the salt whitout mechanically blending too much the yolks. if you are blending too hard the yolks may denaturates and turn into mayonnaise...

I work on a egg breaking /processing plant, we break 4millions eggs a day, pasteurize it and package to different formats for bakeries, cafeterias, and other big food i dustries that uses eggs as their base ingredients.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Evil_Dark »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:03 pm Sooner you than me trying to run plates with no sight glasses.......what you see happening on those plates can tell you many things.
i can add a triclam sight glass in the column for a visual feedback, not sure how expensive a 4in sight glass will be... Sure thing it won't be cheap... :?
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by LWTCS »

Evil_Dark wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:46 am
LWTCS wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:04 pm 100mm works just fine.
However your operating range will be less than optimal.

Much of that may also depend on your plate system.
Are you running perfs or bubble caps?
I was thinkimg of perf plates, I can have them laser cut to my drawings.
Is there a huge difference berween the bubble plates vs the perf ones in the end ressults or the functionning?
I already have a 5 bubble plates modular column.
Well bubble caps in general have a wider operating range and therefore not quite as pressure dependant.

I think you can make perfs to work. Though I'd bet money you may not get it right the first time. If you do,,,go and buy a lottery ticket immediately lol.

Its going to be really difficult to know how your plate system is behaving without sight glasses as Bill mentioned.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Ben »

Evil_Dark wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:53 am
Yummyrum wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:15 pm I’m curious what that thing you have there is out of or used for .
it's a static mixer to dissolve salted liquid egg yolks that i made.
Each triclamp gasket is in fact a strainer gasket, so it creates a turbulence that helps dissolving the salt whitout mechanically blending too much the yolks. if you are blending too hard the yolks may denaturates and turn into mayonnaise...

I work on a egg breaking /processing plant, we break 4millions eggs a day, pasteurize it and package to different formats for bakeries, cafeterias, and other big food i dustries that uses eggs as their base ingredients.
You must have contact with the welder for your site. Have him lengthen however many you need :)
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Evil_Dark »

Ben wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:14 am
You must have contact with the welder for your site. Have him lengthen however many you need :)
I can, but won't be free. If I use it as is, I save money for the sight glass ;)

Will have to buid a condenser, and buy more powerfuls elements to feed this 4in beast!
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Evil_Dark wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:56 am i can add a triclam sight glass in the column for a visual feedback, not sure how expensive a 4in sight glass will be... Sure thing it won't be cheap.
One of those wont help you , I mean a sight glass at each plate, you need to be able to see each or most of the plates to see how they are running.
Its probably possible with a lot of practice to run one without sight glasses, but it would be a real pain in the arse and wear thin very fast.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by CoogeeBoy »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:46 am
Evil_Dark wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:56 am i can add a triclam sight glass in the column for a visual feedback, not sure how expensive a 4in sight glass will be... Sure thing it won't be cheap.
One of those wont help you , I mean a sight glass at each plate, you need to be able to see each or most of the plates to see how they are running.
Its probably possible with a lot of practice to run one without sight glasses, but it would be a real pain in the arse and wear thin very fast.
Looking at sight glasses for myself, looks like you can get a 4" sight glass kit for around $60 on Aliexpress (seems the go to place for this sort of thing).

Anyone else got any recommendations as to where to source sight glasses btw?
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by bluefish_dist »

Evil_Dark wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:46 am
LWTCS wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:04 pm 100mm works just fine.
However your operating range will be less than optimal.

Much of that may also depend on your plate system.
Are you running perfs or bubble caps?
I was thinkimg of perf plates, I can have them laser cut to my drawings.
Is there a huge difference berween the bubble plates vs the perf ones in the end ressults or the functionning?
I already have a 5 bubble plates modular column.
I love perf plates, faster to run, cheaper, easier to make, and clean than bubble plates. According to Odin bubble caps trap more tails, so for a neutral I would think they would be preferred. For a flavored product I think the perfect plates would work better. I think the holes in mine were around .070” and I ran 225 or so on a 4”. 500+ on a 6” around 20w per hole.

I found sieve plates would run over a wide range of speeds and could be pushed 30%+ faster than the standard stilldragon caps, maybe 5-10% more than the pro caps, but much cheaper. Even made a fixture to go in the mill to drill multiples at once since it took hours to drill all the holes.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Evil_Dark »

bluefish_dist wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:34 pm
I love perf plates, faster to run, cheaper, easier to make, and clean than bubble plates. According to Odin bubble caps trap more tails, so for a neutral I would think they would be preferred. For a flavored product I think the perfect plates would work better. I think the holes in mine were around .070” and I ran 225 or so on a 4”. 500+ on a 6” around 20w per hole.

I found sieve plates would run over a wide range of speeds and could be pushed 30%+ faster than the standard stilldragon caps, maybe 5-10% more than the pro caps, but much cheaper. Even made a fixture to go in the mill to drill multiples at once since it took hours to drill all the holes.
Thanks for the valuable info! I will probably laser cut mines, I will have to study a bit more on the plates design alone before cutting them, but usually parts that size in SS304 14ga will cost 4$-5$ each (just the plate, no hardware).

Regards,
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by bluefish_dist »

Mine were made from 1/16” thick copper plate. I cut a precise hole for the downcomer 3/4” for 4” and 1” for 6”. I also found they needed to be about 5” long to build enough head to stop upward flow. 1/2” bath depth.

Depending on what I distilled they might got a few runs before cleaning or maybe every run if it was a dirtier wort. Cleaning was soak in citric acid, then scrubbed clean.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Setsumi »

If you do perf plates open area are important. The higher the % open area the more energy is needed to keep the liquid bath on the plate. Myself runs perfs with 5.6% open area, 2mm holes on about 6mm grid. If I should do it again I would go lower open area.

The nice about perforated plates is you can easily judge where your sweetspot is, to low energy and your plates dumps and starves. But then you need glass.
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Re: Advice on plate spacing in a 4in column

Post by Ben »

Glass on the bottom and top plate is enough.

I never clean my plates, I let the reflux and heads do it :P
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