Help Building A bigger still.

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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bunting
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Help Building A bigger still.

Post by bunting »

Hi Guys,

I am new to this forum. I have spent days reading posts on this site reading all the great info. I think now I am overwhelmed with info. Currently I am using a 25ltr reflux still which produces around 90-95% at 3.8 liters of a 25ltr wash. I would like to upsize my small still so I have bought a stainless steel 44 gallon drum and I am looking to make the reflux column on top. I would like to have a column capable of a high flow rate for quick batch stilling. Could someone please point me in the right direction in building the right size head for the drum. I will be producing vodka. There is some good designs on this site though I am unsure of how big and which to use.

Thanks for your help Guys.
maoule
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by maoule »

What do you have for boiling...gas, electric, either? 44 gal. gives you a lot of choices. I would recommend at least a 3" VM column if you have the height.
2" Bokmini, VM and potstill heads
7.75gal. & 15.5gal electric boilers
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »

I gather you're in Australia?

44gallon imperial is 55 gallon us is 220 odd litres.

What do you need that much vodka for?
blanikdog
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by blanikdog »

Not much gets past our punkin. Good deducing. You should be a police person. :lol: :lol: :lol:

blanik
Simple potstiller. Slow, single run.
(50 litre, propane heated pot still. Coil in bucket condenser - No thermometer, No carbon)
The Reading Lounge AND the Rules We Live By should be compulsory reading

Cumudgeon and loving it.
duds2u
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by duds2u »

Maybe he's "Thirsty". Or then again, maybe all his mates are!!!
Less oak longer
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »

Just interested is all, i don't care what he does with it.

1 thing i do know though, i've made enough to burn down a small town with a 50l beer keg still. :P

Demonstrated by this image of my cutting bench at the moment after 2 runs today.
cuttingbench1.jpg
cuttingbench1.jpg (61.21 KiB) Viewed 4472 times
Big brown bottles are 4l (gallon) small JB bottles are .5l

2 Runs, ujsm spirit run in the foreground and a 96% neutral run in the background.








AWhloeLottaBoozePunkin
HookLine
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by HookLine »

Once you have been involved in hobby distilling, you'll never again look at a stainless beer keg the same way as normal people, or even hobby brewers.


Everybody fill your glasses, and be upstanding...

I propose a toast to the humble, reliable, hard-working, stainless-steel beer keg, for its outstanding and much appreciated contribution to home distilling.


Cheers
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »

HearHearHere

Three Cheers for The Keg



Huzzah...Huzzar...HUZZAR










EternallyGratefullPunkin
blanikdog
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by blanikdog »

To the 'humble, reliable, hard-working, stainless-steel beer keg'. Long may she reign!!!

blanik
Simple potstiller. Slow, single run.
(50 litre, propane heated pot still. Coil in bucket condenser - No thermometer, No carbon)
The Reading Lounge AND the Rules We Live By should be compulsory reading

Cumudgeon and loving it.
Rudi
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by Rudi »

blanikdog wrote:Not much gets past our punkin. Good deducing. You should be a police person. :lol: :lol: :lol:

blanik
Now that would be a scary thought :shock: improbable but scary
Such is life
Hawke
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by Hawke »

A 3" vapor management, modified like Minime's, will run pretty quick.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
pintoshine
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by pintoshine »

If the big ss barrel were mine, I would run it as a pot still to do really large stripping runs and then run the large quantity of say 50L through my column. When you charge a "skankey" with 40% to 45% it will rock. Wait a minute that is what I do. Except I have a homemade 55 gallon.
The only bad thing about charging any column still with that much alcohol is having to babysit it for such a long time.
Making 22L (6 gallons) of 95% still takes a considerable length of time even with one the size of mine or minime's.
Oh, I run a 90x1100mm ss bokokob and its through put is about 2L/h so how about a 13 to 16 hour run with heatup and all.
Some say 2L an hour why so little? Well that is 33 ml a minute or .5 ml /sec. most of the 2" columns with enough reflux only do about 10ml/minute or .6 L/h. Of course this is the finest grade of 95% at this rate. It can do 8L/h if I will settle for just a fast run to increase the purity.
I don't drink as much as I use to and making this much is a problem that I have reduced my stilling to 3-4 times a year. I still have 8l 95% left over from April. It just doesn't go that fast even supplying all the parties throughout the year.
Has anyone given a bottle of this stuff to anyone cut to 50% with the disclaimer that you are not responsible if they drink the whole thing like water and get really sick form near alcohol poisoning? I have been learning that many get the impression that it isn't that potent because it goes down too smooth and after the first two shots start guzzling it because of the impaired perception. Well that was a bit off topic wasn't it?
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »

Stupidly did it myself last week Pint. I'm not really a spirits person aside from the occasional bourbon to savour, i'm addicted to beer in a big way.

But i have been really enjoying a neutral and lemonade since i started making the neutral, which is something that suprised me and everyone who knows me.
Just perfect for those rare times in the evening that i've had enough beer, specially after waking up from an afternoon nap.

Well the other w'end i started with some Big Double Nips in a schooner glass (15 oz) of 50% with lemonade. By the time Bourbon Girl noticed what i was doing i was halfway through my litre bottle, and still reasonably sober. By the time the vodka started metabolising, i'd emptied it and had drunk 900mls of 50% and could barely walk.

It was just that slow metabolising, with beer i'da been drunk in the first hour.




LessonLearnedPunkin
jdonly1
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by jdonly1 »

punkin wrote:Stupidly did it myself last week Pint. I'm not really a spirits person aside from the occasional bourbon to savour, i'm addicted to beer in a big way.

But i have been really enjoying a neutral and lemonade since i started making the neutral, which is something that suprised me and everyone who knows me.
Just perfect for those rare times in the evening that i've had enough beer, specially after waking up from an afternoon nap.

Well the other w'end i started with some Big Double Nips in a schooner glass (15 oz) of 50% with lemonade. By the time Bourbon Girl noticed what i was doing i was halfway through my litre bottle, and still reasonably sober. By the time the vodka started metabolising, i'd emptied it and had drunk 900mls of 50% and could barely walk.

It was just that slow metabolising, with beer i'da been drunk in the first hour.




LessonLearnedPunkin
hahaha thats sound like some thing I would do,how was the head the next morning???
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »

Perfect mate, not a blur. Got up at the usual time and got on with my day. 8)












DrankALotOfWaterThoughPunkin
blanikdog
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by blanikdog »

Yairssss, I've done the same and woke up next morning feeling a just little seedy but nothing more. Really makes you wonder about commercial spirits.

blanik
Simple potstiller. Slow, single run.
(50 litre, propane heated pot still. Coil in bucket condenser - No thermometer, No carbon)
The Reading Lounge AND the Rules We Live By should be compulsory reading

Cumudgeon and loving it.
bunting
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:37 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by bunting »

maoule wrote:What do you have for boiling...gas, electric, either? 44 gal. gives you a lot of choices. I would recommend at least a 3" VM column if you have the height.
I will be installing electric elements into the side wall of the drum. 2 elements will be installed on the walls of the drum one 3/4 the way up and one at the bottom. The top element will cutout when the initial heat up is done. I have the hight Is there some more info on building a 3 '' VM Column you can recommend. Im really looking for some plans and a cost effective way to achieve construction.
bunting
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by bunting »

punkin wrote:I gather you're in Australia?

44gallon imperial is 55 gallon us is 220 odd litres.

What do you need that much vodka for?

Im a big drinker. Na It will fit right in with my ecstasy operation and marijuana plantations. I will just have illegal immigrants running it to keep me in the clear. No one will notice.

Na seriously I plan to produce to sell. I have a liquor license etc and would love to sell an Australian vodka to local restaurants etc. I just need to have the product available.
minime
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by minime »

bunting wrote:I will be installing electric elements into the side wall of the drum. 2 elements will be installed on the walls of the drum one 3/4 the way up and one at the bottom.
There's no advantage to installing 3/4 of the way up and the potential for KA-BOOM is increased significantly :shock: . You may also find on a big boiler you need both elements on all the time, with placement higher in the drum you've precluded the possibility. :? If you're only stripping in this drum I'd think both elements should be on right through.
maoule
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by maoule »

bunting wrote:. The top element will cutout when the initial heat up is done. I have the hight Is there some more info on building a 3 '' VM Column you can recommend. Im really looking for some plans and a cost effective way to achieve construction.
I agree with minime; put both elements down low. I'm not sure what additional info/plans you're looking for... 3" VM info is the first topic of this forum. There is quite a bit of info there and minime has the most recent experience with the 3" VM if you have particular questions. Good luck.
2" Bokmini, VM and potstill heads
7.75gal. & 15.5gal electric boilers
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »


Na seriously I plan to produce to sell. I have a liquor license etc and would love to sell an Australian vodka to local restaurants etc. I just need to have the product available.

Seems to me the size is much too small to entertain legit commercial ideas. You're sorts stuck in no mans land with 200l being much too small for a commercial distillery and much too large for general home use.

You'd be very much better off building a smaller setup to learn on. At that size you are risking a lot of materials everytime you make a mistake or don't get things completetly right.
When you don't know much about the washes, the fermentations, the loading and driving of the still, the takeoff rates and cuts, the airing and flavour combinations ect, you're leaving a LOT of places costly errors can occur.
I'd suggest you take it small and put your drum aside for the time being. Build a beer keg still and learn to drive it, do your recipe experimentation, establish a ferment cycle, breed your yeast...yada yada yada.

You'd need to find a source of materials for your ferments too. Sugar won't be any good, it's too expensive as a source for commecial operations, what have you identified in your buisness plan, and how do you intend to convert it? :?: :?:

Tell me more about this 'liquor license' i'm interested in going down this path myself one day, what steps did you have to take to obtian it? What info did they require?
Did you have to have a premises established before you applied for it? Who do you contact? What about equipment, do they inspect your premises and equipment for safety before they issue the 'liquor license'?
How long do you have to establish yourself commercially? Do you have to pay tax on the alchohol you are producing as you get stocks up, or is there some kinda bond system? How does that all work? Do you pay tax on your experimental alchohol, or can you sorta recycle a set amount? :?

Love to know about all these things so i know what i'm in for if i ever get the knowledge and experience to be able to do it right. 8)
rad14701
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by rad14701 »

Not sure about Australia, bunting, but here in the US all "legal" stills must be "registered" if they are for "commercial" use... I think it should be clear that punkin and I just might be calling your bluff... I doubt that it would be in your best interest to dig yourself in any deeper... I'm sure we, as well as other members, can come up with more questions than you have answers... Your lack of overall knowledge of the craft has definitely raised suspicion... :shock:
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »

rad14701 wrote:Not sure about Australia, bunting, but here in the US all "legal" stills must be "registered" if they are for "commercial" use... I think it should be clear that punkin and I just might be calling your bluff... I doubt that it would be in your best interest to dig yourself in any deeper... I'm sure we, as well as other members, can come up with more questions than you have answers... Your lack of overall knowledge of the craft has definitely raised suspicion... :shock:

Don't go speaking for me, i haven't called anyones bluff.

I've merely asked some obvious questions that i am very interested in the answers to, for my own reasons.
I meant what i said, i'm interested (like most of us fixated on this craft) in opening a legal distillery someday.

Bunting can do what he likes, and although i may have opinions on what i think he's doing and strong opinions on how it affects me (if he is) and the trouble it'll bring down eventually, i'm not in a position to do anything about it.

The information we are publishing about what we are learning is there for anyone to see, and anyone with a bit of nounce, half a brain and some energy could learn all they want for making spirits here by reading without ever making a post.

It's only people like us who want to perfect an art (and dumb lazy bastards) who need to post questions.

Bunting must fit into one of the two categories as far as i'm concerned.










InTheMeantimeSpeakForY'selfPunkin
bunting
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by bunting »

punkin wrote:

Na seriously I plan to produce to sell. I have a liquor license etc and would love to sell an Australian vodka to local restaurants etc. I just need to have the product available.


You'd need to find a source of materials for your ferments too. Sugar won't be any good, it's too expensive as a source for commecial operations, what have you identified in your buisness plan, and how do you intend to convert it? :?: :?:

Tell me more about this 'liquor license' i'm interested in going down this path myself one day, what steps did you have to take to obtian it? What info did they require?
Did you have to have a premises established before you applied for it? Who do you contact? What about equipment, do they inspect your premises and equipment for safety before they issue the 'liquor license'?
How long do you have to establish yourself commercially? Do you have to pay tax on the alchohol you are producing as you get stocks up, or is there some kinda bond system? How does that all work? Do you pay tax on your experimental alchohol, or can you sorta recycle a set amount? :?

Love to know about all these things so i know what i'm in for if i ever get the knowledge and experience to be able to do it right. 8)

Hi Punkin, Thanks for the reply I will be giving the keg some thought as I have one laying around. Perhaps I could convert the 220ltr drum into a stripper that could then feed my 50ltr keg for a clean run.

I was planning to start with sugar direct from csr. If anyone has any ideas on this it would be great to hear some solutions.

Liquor license.... Well this was an application with consumer affairs in vic. They then send the police over for an interview on your character and the layout of the property where the still will be. The local council is informed and they do an inspection and environmental effect report and send worksafe around to inspect and make sure you have safe work practices
and good disaster management plans. Nobody so far had much of an idea how the still works nor what one even looked like so there was no inspection of the equipment yet. Then the health department does an inspection (stainless steel and good ventilation is a must, everywhere). They will also buy product randomly off you to test in there labs. The will turn up every now and then to inspect and check you are filling out a daily cleanup report. Due to the recent ethanol fuel boom the tax department is very strict with the final ethanol holding license. This license requires them to have an inspection of your separate ethanol holding building that has fort knox security. The are not loose on this and I am still in this process. I am unsure of how they will monitor my ethanol production and tax me yet but I know if you buy the food grade ethanol from csr the tax department will charge $60 for every liter missing during your production (dont have a spill :oops: ). I believe only get taxed when the finished product is sold or lost. It all seems like a headache but its an exciting journey.

Im sorry I dont have answers to all your questions yet I am just begging this journey myself. I will keep the forums posted with my progress.

Cheers
Bunting
HookLine
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by HookLine »

Sounds interesting, Bunting. Keep us up to date with your progress.
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »

Stripping still feeding a smaller spirit still sounds more like a good unit.

If you are serious about commecial production i think you'd need a far larger stripping still and the 200 litre spirit still may be large enough if you run every day, but i doubt it. You have to find a way to do it all in eight hours, and i don't think a 3" column is gunna get you there.
HookLine
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by HookLine »

and i don't think a 3" column is gunna get you there.
Not even close.

6" would be the minimum for commercial, and you'd be running it every week day.
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.
rad14701
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by rad14701 »

My apologies, bunting... If you'd have come across as serious from the start then perhaps I/we wouldn't have been so skeptical... We get a lot of wannabe's and clowns here and we'd rather winnow out the chaff than waste our time... If you're honestly looking to go legit, good for you... It can be a long and tedious process in just about any country these days...

@punkin... I wasn't pulling you into anything, it just sounded like you were every bit as skeptical as I was there for a moment... The recent influx of new members has caused a lot of skepticism for many of us...
punkin
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by punkin »

rad14701 wrote:My apologies, bunting... If you'd have come across as serious from the start then perhaps I/we wouldn't have been so skeptical... We get a lot of wannabe's and clowns here and we'd rather winnow out the chaff than waste our time... If you're honestly looking to go legit, good for you... It can be a long and tedious process in just about any country these days...

@punkin... I wasn't pulling you into anything, it just sounded like you were every bit as skeptical as I was there for a moment... The recent influx of new members has caused a lot of skepticism for many of us...

I am. I'm very skeptical. I don't believe a word of it :mrgreen:









ButI'mNotGunnaCallHimOnItPunkin
pintoshine
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Re: Help Building A bigger still.

Post by pintoshine »

I'm not skeptical. I am certain He's a poser.
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