getting even results across hearts

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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eternalfrost
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getting even results across hearts

Post by eternalfrost » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:13 pm

ive been doing taste samples across some of my stocks this week. i label the hearts bottles like 1/10, 2/10 etc. and i can defiantly notice a steady progression through them from heads to tails. I dont know if its just my sense of taste getting sharper as i learn of because its been sitting a few months.

but the first bottle is really sharp, then mellows out then pretty nice in the middle then starting to get the "doggy" taste at the last ones. The thing is, i dont think its really an issue in making cuts, its a steady progression, not just one or two bad bottles at each end. I take it off from the still in order and keep them separate when diluting.

just wondering if this happens to others? especially you pros like hook and minime et.al
how uniform is your hearts cut? do you blend them?
does my technique need tweaking to get better head/tails separation?

anyways I should be ready to test out my new taller VM column soon so hopefully that will give some better results then these on a shorted LM column

dropping_planets
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by dropping_planets » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:16 am

after you make your heads and tails cuts, rather than keep your 'body' separated in the collecting bottles, you should blend it all together with any bit of good tails you might wanna add, cut to barrel proof, age/oak to taste, cut to drinking proof and than bottle.... :shock:

eternalfrost
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by eternalfrost » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:56 pm

blending them dosent solve the root problem here... im not worried that the flavors change, im worried that there ARE flavors.

minime
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by minime » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:02 am

eternalfrost wrote:but the first bottle is really sharp, then mellows out then pretty nice in the middle then starting to get the "doggy" taste at the last ones. The thing is, i dont think its really an issue in making cuts, its a steady progression, not just one or two bad bottles at each end. I take it off from the still in order and keep them separate when diluting.

just wondering if this happens to others? especially you pros like hook and minime et.al
how uniform is your hearts cut? do you blend them?
does my technique need tweaking to get better head/tails separation?
I have never encountered this type of problem with a VM column. If your column is running stable, and no temperature fluctuations are occurring then the last drop should be exactly the same as the first drop.
I don't ever collect into small containers when running neutral. When heads are gone everything goes into one container 'till I'm getting close to tails. That's when I switch containers in case I mess up. With the new VM stills I usually run the R/R really high for the last pint or so and the still just quits dripping. It's really easy to do with a VM still because once a R/R is dialed in, it stays there even as the composition of vapor changes in the column because it works on a percentage base not a volume base.
Until you actually run a VM column it's hard to grasp but that's why I'm so enthusiastic about them. Be warned though, it's a boring run with a VM column :lol:

Ugly

Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by Ugly » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:25 am

minime wrote:it's a boring run with a VM column :lol:
+1
In a nice predictable way...

eternalfrost
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by eternalfrost » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:40 am

minime wrote: If your column is running stable, and no temperature fluctuations are occurring then the last drop should be exactly the same as the first drop.
Thats what i thought minime. The column runs stable, but it is touchy at best to be sure. those damn needle valves are always needing tweeking during the run.

I never would have noticed except this last run i made an effort to keep the bottles in order as they came off. placed them all in a row to air out then each jar of 95% gets cut into two jars worth of 40% and bottled. just added the extra info with the numbers to the labels. its all good and drinkable, but there is a definate difference. to the point that with a blind taste test we could guess two within a bottle or two which it came from.

wondering if other people bottle this way and get even results, or if everone just mixes together and has similar problems without knowing. I know i didnt notice anything wrong until they were cut and bottled and a sample of each right next to eachother. during the run it all seemed fine to me.

punkin
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by punkin » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:37 am

Interesting question with an easy solution.

The question will probably remain though as it's so uncommon to do.

eternalfrost
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by eternalfrost » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:58 am

punkin wrote:Interesting question with an easy solution.

The question will probably remain though as it's so uncommon to do.
Im curious as to how you would collect without doing this? ill get somewhere around 10-12L hearts output on a spirit run. you certainly cant collect this all into one container. I collect hearts into the 1L mason jars, air out, then cut and bottle. its roughly 1.25:1 to cut 95 down to 40 so i just take a jar, pour half into a empty jar, and top them both up with water until they read 40-45%, then funnel into wine bottles for storage.

I just dont have anything safe for spirits thats 30L+ big to cut it all down at once...

snuffy
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by snuffy » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:25 am

Image

Finally, a decent needle valve. It's called a hydraulic flow control valve. The fancy ones have color-coded micrometer adjustment.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp? ... A&catname=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

PS: LM columns can hang onto increasing amounts of heavier molecules during a run due to adsorption onto the surface of the condenser. It doesn't happen with VM or CM because the product doesn't flow across the surface of the condenser.
Time's a wasting!!!

punkin
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by punkin » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:58 am

eternalfrost wrote:
Im curious as to how you would collect without doing this? ill get somewhere around 10-12L hearts output on a spirit run. you certainly cant collect this all into one container. I collect hearts into the 1L mason jars, air out, then cut and bottle. its roughly 1.25:1 to cut 95 down to 40 so i just take a jar, pour half into a empty jar, and top them both up with water until they read 40-45%, then funnel into wine bottles for storage.

I just dont have anything safe for spirits thats 30L+ big to cut it all down at once...


Just the same as my whiskey, rum ect.

I collect hearts in two litre bottles, i pour them into 4l bottles on my cutting bench, i do my cuts without refering to hearts (except as baseline to what flavour is originally there), and then tip the whole lot of the keepers into my BOP (keg with the top cut off).

I then measure the abv and use the calculators to dilute (usually gotta dilute a bit more than the calculators say) to end up with say, twenty litres of 65% for soon to be brown spirits or say twenty five litres of 50% of neutral.

I then store all this in with what was left of the last batch in either beer kegs or barrels.


I only bottle when i want a bottle.

I have a 4l jug in the house of 50% neutral i can top my drinking bottle up with and i have a 4l bottle or six in the house with oak sticks and different brews at 65% that gets a bottle cut a week or so before the Bourbon Girl runs outa hooch in her bottle.

I top the 4l bottles up outa the kegs (which all have ball valves at the bottom).





BulkStorageIsBetterForMePunkin

minime
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by minime » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:11 pm

eternalfrost wrote:I just dont have anything safe for spirits thats 30L+ big to cut it all down at once...
I don't ever remember having a run that was more than 4 gallons/16 liters of hearts. Most of my runs are under that so once I'm satisfied with the product I collect into a stainless stock pot with the lid on and a hole in the lid. I don't cut my product because I'm the only one drinking it. I cut it when I mix a drink.
I always know how much hearts is coming my way and once I'm in the neighborhood I switch out for coffee pots which hold a couple of liters each.

eternalfrost
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by eternalfrost » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:53 pm

I usually get 10-12 L of 95% keepers on the final run. cutting this to 40% gives 20 - 30L of final product.

I dont know about you guys, but i just dont feel safe with an open mouth container with 20-30L (or around 50 pounds :shock: ) of spirits then trying to pour this into bottles. It would be another thing if you use a keg with a spout or something but theres no way im mixing all that up in my stock pot then trying to pour it off into a funnel by hand.

This way just works great for me. the whole cutting/bottling process takes under 30 mins for a full keg run. and im never handling more then about 1.5L open sauce at one time.

punkin
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by punkin » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:03 pm

bop2.jpg
bop2.jpg (40.79 KiB) Viewed 834 times
Yes, i have a ball valve on the pot.

minime
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Re: getting even results across hearts

Post by minime » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:31 pm

eternalfrost wrote:I dont know about you guys, but i just dont feel safe with an open mouth container with 20-30L (or around 50 pounds :shock: ) of spirits then trying to pour this into bottles. It would be another thing if you use a keg with a spout or something but theres no way im mixing all that up in my stock pot then trying to pour it off into a funnel by hand.
I never pour from the stock pot. I dip a Pyrex coffee pot in there and pour from it. I store in glass gallon jugs. Handling alcohol is a lot safer than handling gasoline (it's water soluble and not carcinogenic if it gets on your skin) but of course caution is advisable. My storage and handling is all outside now, there's never more than a small bottle or two in the house. Hell, restaurants are lighting this stuff on fire all the time. Now that scares me!

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