Building Carbon Filter help

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SheepDale
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Building Carbon Filter help

Post by SheepDale »

Hi all,
I am really sorry as this is going to be a long post, but I need your help.

I want to build my own activated carbon filter to polish my spirit. I have studied the ‘paper’ from Gert Strand that was passed to me from a member of this group. I understand fully the basics, but have seven follow up questions that I need help with please.

1. Who is Gert Strand? Is he a professor or a scientist and has some background into the science of carbon? I ask as I was told to be wary of sales people as they just want to sell you their things. In the paper Gert tells us we should use the “Prestige activated carbons” which can be purchased at his shop. I don’t know who Gert is, so to me this just looks like another salesperson trying to sell me things so he can make money.

2. Does anybody in here use the Prestige activated stone carbon, 0.4-0.85 mm? If so, what do you think of it?



I would like to try and do the double polish by using pulverized carbon before I use ‘dry’ carbon. I would distil, then water down my ethanol to 45% with purified water, then put in 4g of pulverized carbon per litre of ethanol. I would shake the container 4 times within a 24-hour period, then leave it for 24+ hours so the carbon all falls to the bottom. Then I would syphon off the ethanol so it is ready for the next stage (which is to put it in a tube of activated carbon).

3. I understand that not all activated carbon is the same and you have to make sure that what you use is the best you can get. I haven’t though read anything about different qualities of pulverized carbon. I assume it matters and there are good ones out there, but does anybody in here use it and if so what company would you recommend ?

4. I can’t actually find “pulverized carbon” in any shop, everybody though does sell “liquid carbon”. I assume this is the same thing, just a different name?


I understand that the activated carbon needs to be put into a stainless steel saucepan with hot or boiling water, mixed and then left to settle. Then syphon off the water, fill it back up with hot or boiling water, mix it, and leave to settle. This process should be repeated 4-5 times. On the 5 time, it should be left for 24 hours. After 24 hours, get rid of the excess water so the carbon is ready to fill the carbon tube.

To build a carbon filter tube, you need to know the dimensions. Gert said “Alcohol normally needs 1.5 meters. It does not matter if the layer (the length of pipe used) is higher, but if it is too thin, then purification will not take place. The pipe must be at least 38 mm in diameter otherwise a “wall effect” will be created and the alcohol runs past the carbon along the wall, without being purified.”. Understood. 38mm wide minimum and also 1.5 meters high minimum.

I am a bit confused over where Gert says “To describe how good this “pre-wetting” method works is easy. To purify 5 liters of alcohol 40-50% one normally needs 1 tube 40 mm x 1.5 meter, then one more to take the last 10% volatiles that remain (this can be used again next time as first filtration). With the pre-wetting method, the same can be done in one filtration in a 1-meter tube, sometimes shorter.

5. When he says “pre-wetting” does he mean the washing and soaking of the carbon in hot water which I talked about in the previous paragraph?

6. Can somebody explain what he means by “then one more to take the last 10% volatiles that remain”. Does he mean the last bit of spirit that is ‘trapped’ in the tube right at the end?

7. If I am correct on what the pre-wetting means, when he says “With the pre-wetting method, the same can be done in one filtration in a 1-meter tube, sometimes shorter.” So does that mean the filter tube doesn’t need to be a minimum of 1.5 meters long if you pre-wet/soak the carbon?


I understand about filling the carbon tube with water before adding the carbon so that there are no air pockets and once done to knock the tube a bit to compact it. Then once the carbon is in, flush it with 4-5 litres of warm water and then once done add the ethanol to the pipe.

Flow rate is also extremely important so extra filter papers and a ball tap on the end would help sort this.

For the flow, Gert says that it is measured in “Bed volume per hour (HSV, Hourly Space Velocity)”. I couldn’t find any reference to this on the internet, so not sure how to calculate it. Does anybody in here know what it is and how to convert that to something most people could understand?

He did though say this “For a pipe holding 1.7 liters, the maximum purification occurs at 4 dl per hour if the pipe is approx. 40 mm wide and the carbon grain 0.4-1.4 mm in size.

When Gert says “4dl per hour” I think he means 4 deciliters which converts to 400 millilitres (my measuring jugs don’t have deciliters on them). If we change the ratio, it means we should get 100ml of polished spirit every 15 minutes. If we have 8 Litres of spirit to polish, it should take around 20 hours to filter.

The tubes I am looking to use will be either the 38mm or 51mm (probably will be the 51mm as the wider it is the shorter the pipe should need to be) stainless steel Tri Clamp sort with PTFE gaskets. Below is the design that I am looking to create. If Gert says a 38mm pipe would need to be 1.5 meters long the volume would be 1.7 Litres. If though I used 51mm diameter piping, I could get 1.7 Litres by having it 0.85 meters long.

Design - 1 - Ver 0.1.png


So to summarize, I will use liquid carbon to treat my 45% spirit once it has been distilled and watered down. I will then polish it using 0.4-0.85mm Prestige activated stone carbon in a tube that has multiple filter papers + a ball valve tap at the bottom output to slow the output to 100ml every 15 minutes (or slower). The tube would be 304 stainless steel with a diameter of 51mm. The height/length of the tube is the only thing in contention. I want to use the smallest tube possible, so would it have to be 1.5 meters long or would 1 meter be ok, or could it be a little shorter, and if so, how long?

Thank you very much to all those who can assist me.
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by Andrew_90 »

I too read the article and was confused so following this with interest.

What is the effect on the product when filtered? Is it an in your face, wow what a difference or is it more subtle than that.

I note that one local manufacturer produces their activated powder from Macadamia Nut shells.
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by still_stirrin »

Can’t answer these questions, Dale. I use the “liver filter” NZChris promotes. It’s worked flawlessly so far.
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

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SheepDale wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:54 am I want to build my own activated carbon filter to polish my spirit.
So I'll pose a question in return. Why do you need to filter your spirits at all? Because there really isn't a good reason to be doing so. A clean fermentation, conservative cuts , airing and aging are all that a required.
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Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Expat wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:47 am
So I'll pose a question in return. Why do you need to filter your spirits at all? Because there really isn't a good reason to be doing so. A clean fermentation, conservative cuts , airing and aging are all that a required.
To be fair, I've tasted what happens when you take that same clean conservative cut, and run it through carbon filtering. It turns vodka into true nuetral. Quite remarkable, actually, to taste a spirit that you think is actually water. No sweetness from the ethanol, even.

We all have to be careful to keep an open mind when guiding. Now, if it's for any other reason but vodka, I drop out there. I wouldn't waste my time on removing flavor from whiskey or rum. Still, that's my perspective. Someone else might come along and decide they want a Jack Daniel's profile, but done 'right. They would need a maple charcol filter. Still quality driven, but a different process.

Now, if the op thinks this is what has to be done for a quality drop, my comment does not apply. There is a place for this system, but a very nuanced one, I feel.
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

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Expat wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:47 am
SheepDale wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:54 am I want to build my own activated carbon filter to polish my spirit.
So I'll pose a question in return. Why do you need to filter your spirits at all? Because there really isn't a good reason to be doing so. A clean fermentation, conservative cuts , airing and aging are all that a required.
Hi @Expat. To answer your question, I am creating as neutral vodka as I can. In the future I am interested in making some rum and whisky, but right now I create neutral as I just want it as a base. One of the main things that I make is Damson Vodka from my trees and my next project is Rhubarb and Ginger gin (I have been growing Rhubarb for 7+ years and have 12 crowns, while ginger growing I only started a couple of months ago).

Below is my last 'batch'. I still have 1 bottle left.
20171007_181518a.jpg

@ShineonCrazyDiamond, I don't suppose you know who Gert Strand is who wrote the paper on carbon filtering? While the paper is out there on the internet, nobody seems to know his background or if what he says is correct.

still_stirrin wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:31 am Can’t answer these questions, Dale. I use the “liver filter” NZChris promotes. It’s worked flawlessly so far.
ss
@still_stirrin, can you please tell me where I can find some information on this "liver filter". I really want to see what other people have built or bought.
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by SheepDale »

Andrew_90 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:16 pm I too read the article and was confused so following this with interest.

What is the effect on the product when filtered? Is it an in your face, wow what a difference or is it more subtle than that.

I note that one local manufacturer produces their activated powder from Macadamia Nut shells.
Hi Andrew,
This is one of the things that I want to test. When I started out I used an 'Air Still' from Still Spirits in New Zealand. I then moved up to a 'T500' also from Still Spirits. I now have a semi custom-built boiler that is all made from SS and has fully controllable electric heater (in the base) with an integrated thermometer in the base. I can get it +- 0.5 degrees C from the desired set temperature. I then have a "T500" SS Reflux condenser column.

I started off filtering using the 'Air Still Collector System', then moved onto the 'EZ Filter' (which I hated and returned it the next day), then the 'Z-Filter', all three from Still Spirits. A week ago I was leant the new 'Filter Pro' from Still Spirits, but to be honest I have used it once and do not like it at all. This is why I want to make my own.

I have always filtered, but to be honest I want to see how much I actually need to & how big the filter needs to be.
I am going to by the parts to be make 1 filter system, but 3 different sized tubes so I can make the filter and do tests with 5 different sizes from the small to the very large. I would probably make a raspberry vodka without filtering it. Then I will make a drink from filer size #1, then #2 all the way up to #5. I would leave them all a month to settle, then I would taste them all to see what differences there is between them. Well, that is the plan, but sadly is going to take some time...
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by Setsumi »

my contribution will just add confusion.. i am with expat, myself like a vodka that has a base flavour. i put it in the freezer an sip below ice cold. i am not big into gin but again i would prefer to taste the base spirit. myself think stringent cuts make good liker. but then it is just my taste.
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

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Setsumi wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:17 pm my contribution will just add confusion.. i am with expat, myself like a vodka that has a base flavour. i put it in the freezer an sip below ice cold. i am not big into gin but again i would prefer to taste the base spirit. myself think stringent cuts make good liker. but then it is just my taste.
H @Setsumi, and that is the best part, we can all make what we want, the way we want it and nobody can stop us (unless the police find out, but hay, can't have everything!).
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

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SheepDale wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am , I don't suppose you know who Gert Strand is who wrote the paper on carbon filtering?
I could be wrong about this but I suspect the he started off as a hobby distiller long ago. Maybe back around the time of the Yahoo Distiller Groups"
Not sure that he has any official qualifications.
Hes been in the game of flogging essences, charcoal and other homebrew shop " essentials" for a long time.
Ive always looked at him as just another salesman who sells things I dont want or need.
Pretty sure he had a finger in the pie of developing the range of essences that he sells.
Could be wrong.....just remember reading something ages ago that said something along those lines.
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Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:35 pm
SheepDale wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am , I don't suppose you know who Gert Strand is who wrote the paper on carbon filtering?
I could be wrong about this but I suspect the he started off as a hobby distiller long ago. Maybe back around the time of the Yahoo Distiller Groups"
Not sure that he has any official qualifications.
Hes been in the game of flogging essences, charcoal and other homebrew shop " essentials" for a long time.
Ive always looked at him as just another salesman who sells things I dont want or need.
Pretty sure he had a finger in the pie of developing the range of essences that he sells.
Could be wrong.....just remember reading something ages ago that said something along those lines.
Thank you Bill.
I think that is my issue, Gert is another salesman who sells e-cigarette flavours, soft drinks, brewing items and a whole lot more. He may know his stuff, but every brewing shop owner tells me that they know best and the others are wrong. It is very difficult and sometimes you have to learn by your own mistakes and successes.
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Like you Id be interested to see proof that he is anything more than a buisness man /salesman thats good at promoting his own goods.
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Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:58 pm Like you Id be interested to see proof that he is anything more than a buisness man /salesman thats good at promoting his own goods.
I think I am going to email him and ask. I won't be accusatory or anything like that, but will thank him for the guide and see if he responds. I will let you know if he does.
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

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SheepDale wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:20 pm
Setsumi wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:17 pm my contribution will just add confusion.. i am with expat, myself like a vodka that has a base flavour. i put it in the freezer an sip below ice cold. i am not big into gin but again i would prefer to taste the base spirit. myself think stringent cuts make good liker. but then it is just my taste.
H @Setsumi, and that is the best part, we can all make what we want, the way we want it and nobody can stop us (unless the police find out, but hay, can't have everything!).
you are correct, myself not into filter because as stated i like a richer flavour. but if a carbon filter will help you to get to a better product i am sure to follow your journey. some stuff i learm from others, so please share.
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SheepDale wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am

still_stirrin wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:31 am Can’t answer these questions, Dale. I use the “liver filter” NZChris promotes. It’s worked flawlessly so far.
ss
@still_stirrin, can you please tell me where I can find some information on this "liver filter". I really want to see what other people have built or bought.
SS was making a joke. As in no need for a carbon filter when your liver will do all the filtering it needs... :lol:

One of the users on this sight has the following in his signature: Turning water into whiskey & whiskey into water.
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rubberduck71 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:17 pm
SheepDale wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am

still_stirrin wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:31 am Can’t answer these questions, Dale. I use the “liver filter” NZChris promotes. It’s worked flawlessly so far.
ss
@still_stirrin, can you please tell me where I can find some information on this "liver filter". I really want to see what other people have built or bought.
SS was making a joke. As in no need for a carbon filter when your liver will do all the filtering it needs... :lol:

One of the users on this sight has the following in his signature: Turning water into whiskey & whiskey into water.

Ah, I had wondered if that was the case at first, but then I Googled it! Doh!
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Post by goinbroke2 »

image.jpg
Great thread!
I too am building a filter “just to see”. If it cleans up my neutral (one never knows until they prove it) and if it does nothing or not enough to justify the extra work or $$ then I won’t do it a second time.

My question is if we can use carbon filters for a fish tank??
This is what I picked up “just because “.
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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goinbroke2 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:15 am image.jpgGreat thread!
I too am building a filter “just to see”. If it cleans up my neutral (one never knows until they prove it) and if it does nothing or not enough to justify the extra work or $$ then I won’t do it a second time.

My question is if we can use carbon filters for a fish tank??
This is what I picked up “just because “.
Noooooooo!

You MUST only ever use items which have been classified as food grade. Anything else can very easily poison your spirit and actually add in harmful things. It is the same that you wouldn't buy a garden saw for cutting tree branches and use that to cut up your food. That blade isn't designed for it and it could leave toxins behind and allow bacteria to grow on it.

While yes, using activated carbon for fish tanks is cheap, it could harm you and others. Sadly there are many youtube videos out there where people show you how you can make a carbon filter to polish your vodka using only and old Coca Cola (other soft drink bottles are available) and some fish tank carbon, trust me, don't do it.

I have been able to speak to Gert who made the world renowned filtering document and have done a lot of other research, and even ordered a few stainless steel items to make my own filter. In two weeks time my last set of parts should be here and then I can tell you all about it.

But please, do not use non-food grade items in any way for doing anything to do with drinks for human consumption.
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Post by goinbroke2 »

Well thanks sheepdale. I figured it was too good to be true, lol.

I’ll see what’s around here or order something online.
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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@SheepDale

May I ask you what carbon did you buy, and where? Do you have an ASIN for it? Technical specifications, such as microsizewhatever, so that I can buy something equivalent if I don't find the same product?

I think making the pipe is easy, but I cannot find a reliable guidance on which carbon to buy.
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Here is the carbon I purchased and the filter I made. 2 or 3 layers of coffee filter at the bottom with the 3/4" copper holding it in place. Poured the carbon in and then ran a bit of water thru it before using it. Id recommend using a larger size than 1/2 for where the carbon is. It was very slow. I only used it a few times with turbo yeast and never needed it after I found this site and birdwatchers recipe. I didnt read the whole thread so I apologize but I believe even Grey Goose carbon filters their vodka, so I dont personally think its just a band aid for shitty cuts. I dont use it because im not an ultra picky drinker but I definitely dont look down on it.
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Do we have any serious fish tank geeks here who can clarify things .
Im thinking some people have tanks and collections of fish that equate to many many thousands of dollars.
Are those people going to use a dodgy second grade form of activated carbon and risk making those fish sick or killing them?
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@Winnipeg204

Many thanks, just the information I wanted.

Can some Italian distiller suggest where can they be sourced? I couldn't find them, not even in the Distillex shop on Aliexpress.
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SheepDale wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:39 amI started off filtering using the 'Air Still Collector System', then moved onto the 'EZ Filter' (which I hated and returned it the next day), then the 'Z-Filter', all three from Still Spirits. A week ago I was leant the new 'Filter Pro' from Still Spirits, but to be honest I have used it once and do not like it at all. This is why I want to make my own.
What was it you didn't like about it ? I was going to buy one of these next week. It costs around £130.00. The thing that appealed to me about it is the volume of spirit it holds.

I currently use a still spirits granular carbon filter which requires constant babysitting.

I wouldn't mind buying ready to go parts and building my own, but I don't mind paying for something that's worth the money. Any advice on this would be appreciated.
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RedMick wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:56 am
SheepDale wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:39 amI started off filtering using the 'Air Still Collector System', then moved onto the 'EZ Filter' (which I hated and returned it the next day), then the 'Z-Filter', all three from Still Spirits. A week ago I was leant the new 'Filter Pro' from Still Spirits, but to be honest I have used it once and do not like it at all. This is why I want to make my own.
What was it you didn't like about it ? I was going to buy one of these next week. It costs around £130.00. The thing that appealed to me about it is the volume of spirit it holds.

I currently use a still spirits granular carbon filter which requires constant babysitting.

I wouldn't mind buying ready to go parts and building my own, but I don't mind paying for something that's worth the money. Any advice on this would be appreciated.


Hi RedMick, are you from the UK by any chance?

So, the below is me using the Filter Pro. I was using it in my kitchen on the back of the door where we keep our shoes and coats.
Pros
You can filter up to 8 Litres in one go
There are no rubber tubes to connect to buckets
Looks and feels professional

Cons
Big and bulky
I have no doors in my house that I don't use, so this got in the way
While they say it should take 8 hours with 2 drops per second, I did 2 drops per second and mine took around 17 hours to filter
500 grams of carbon is quite a lot
The seals they use are silicone rubber which is not good
Big and bulky, so takes up a lot of space to store when not used
 
20210405_16271aaaaa.jpg
 
 
If I was given a Filter Pro, I would probably use it, but I wouldn't buy one myself. So, what I am doing is making my own. I looked at what Still Spirits did and what components they used. Apart from the custom-made feed container, they are using standard 1.5" Tri Clamp items.
The science behind carbon filtering is quite simple once you get your head around it. Lets ignore the different types of activated carbon and go straight to the chamber that will hold it. The thinner the tube, the longer it needs to be as you get 'wall effect' where more liquid is in contact with the inside walls of the tube, so it isn't going through the carbon. The wider the tube, the less spirit is touching the walls and is going through the carbon, so, the shorter it needs to be. I am going to use 2" Tri Clamp tubing as this will allow more contact and therefor will make everything shorter. On my prototype (below) I have installed at the top a glass observation area so that I can see it either full (so I know it is still filtering) or if it is empty (so it has finished). On this prototype I installed two 13mm barbs at the top and bottom to feed it and for the output. I have now ordered 10mm barbs and hope to get them in 2 weeks time. I am also using a ball valve to control the flow rate. The ball valve does do a good job, but it isn't as precise as I would like, so have ordered a needle valve to use instead as this should have much more control.
As I said, the tube is 2" Tri Clamp which has an internal diameter of 4.7cm and a length on 12". When you add in the other parts (it has internal filtering as well) the actual volume area for the carbon is 0.64 Litres. If you convert this to grams, it should be 322 grams of activated carbon.
All of the components are 304 Stainless Steel apart from the Viewing area which is 316 SS. I have also thrown away the silicon seals that came with the clamps and I have replaced them with Teflon seals.
 
Filter 1.jpg
 
I can't wait to get the new 2" 10mm barb ends and the needle valve as then I will be ready to put a wash and test it out. The carbon I will be using will be 0.4 - 0.8 Stone Carbon.
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RedMick
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by RedMick »

SheepDale wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:53 am
RedMick wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:56 am
SheepDale wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:39 amI started off filtering using the 'Air Still Collector System', then moved onto the 'EZ Filter' (which I hated and returned it the next day), then the 'Z-Filter', all three from Still Spirits. A week ago I was leant the new 'Filter Pro' from Still Spirits, but to be honest I have used it once and do not like it at all. This is why I want to make my own.
What was it you didn't like about it ? I was going to buy one of these next week. It costs around £130.00. The thing that appealed to me about it is the volume of spirit it holds.

I currently use a still spirits granular carbon filter which requires constant babysitting.

I wouldn't mind buying ready to go parts and building my own, but I don't mind paying for something that's worth the money. Any advice on this would be appreciated.


Hi RedMick, are you from the UK by any chance?

So, the below is me using the Filter Pro. I was using it in my kitchen on the back of the door where we keep our shoes and coats.
Pros
You can filter up to 8 Litres in one go
There are no rubber tubes to connect to buckets
Looks and feels professional

Cons
Big and bulky
I have no doors in my house that I don't use, so this got in the way
While they say it should take 8 hours with 2 drops per second, I did 2 drops per second and mine took around 17 hours to filter
500 grams of carbon is quite a lot
The seals they use are silicone rubber which is not good
Big and bulky, so takes up a lot of space to store when not used
 
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If I was given a Filter Pro, I would probably use it, but I wouldn't buy one myself. So, what I am doing is making my own. I looked at what Still Spirits did and what components they used. Apart from the custom-made feed container, they are using standard 1.5" Tri Clamp items.
The science behind carbon filtering is quite simple once you get your head around it. Lets ignore the different types of activated carbon and go straight to the chamber that will hold it. The thinner the tube, the longer it needs to be as you get 'wall effect' where more liquid is in contact with the inside walls of the tube, so it isn't going through the carbon. The wider the tube, the less spirit is touching the walls and is going through the carbon, so, the shorter it needs to be. I am going to use 2" Tri Clamp tubing as this will allow more contact and therefor will make everything shorter. On my prototype (below) I have installed at the top a glass observation area so that I can see it either full (so I know it is still filtering) or if it is empty (so it has finished). On this prototype I installed two 13mm barbs at the top and bottom to feed it and for the output. I have now ordered 10mm barbs and hope to get them in 2 weeks time. I am also using a ball valve to control the flow rate. The ball valve does do a good job, but it isn't as precise as I would like, so have ordered a needle valve to use instead as this should have much more control.
As I said, the tube is 2" Tri Clamp which has an internal diameter of 4.7cm and a length on 12". When you add in the other parts (it has internal filtering as well) the actual volume area for the carbon is 0.64 Litres. If you convert this to grams, it should be 322 grams of activated carbon.
All of the components are 304 Stainless Steel apart from the Viewing area which is 316 SS. I have also thrown away the silicon seals that came with the clamps and I have replaced them with Teflon seals.
 
Filter 1.jpg
 
I can't wait to get the new 2" 10mm barb ends and the needle valve as then I will be ready to put a wash and test it out. The carbon I will be using will be 0.4 - 0.8 Stone Carbon.
Hi Sheepdale.

Thank you for the detailed information, and yes mate, I'm in the UK. Liverpool to be precise.

I also had a look at the construction of the still spirits one and came to the same conclusion as you. I was thinking about buying a stainless steel bucket, drilling a hole and then doing some kind of weldless attachment to the SS tubing. So, since my earlier post, I've been trawling the internet looking for the best way to go about the build and looking for the parts. TBH, my heads hurting with it all.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the total cost likely to be ?
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SheepDale
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by SheepDale »

Hi RedMick,
Cool, I am Derbyshire myself.
 
I know what you mean. I have been researching this for 3+ months now and my brain leaked out a while ago (a little is still retained). You can actually buy 1.5" & 2" Tri Clamp converters. Below is a 1.5" one I bought. What I may use it for is to screw into the top of a T500 boiler lid. I can then mount my carbon filter to a T500 to collect the polished spirit.
 
20210426_112142.jpg
20210426_112222.jpg
 
RedMick, if you are interested, I would be more than happy to show you what I bought and how much they were. If you are interested in possibly building something, I would be happy team up and could throw ideas at each other.
I think I know what I know, but I may be wrong.
RedMick
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by RedMick »

SheepDale wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:59 pm Hi RedMick,
Cool, I am Derbyshire myself.
 
I know what you mean. I have been researching this for 3+ months now and my brain leaked out a while ago (a little is still retained). You can actually buy 1.5" & 2" Tri Clamp converters. Below is a 1.5" one I bought. What I may use it for is to screw into the top of a T500 boiler lid. I can then mount my carbon filter to a T500 to collect the polished spirit.
 
20210426_112142.jpg
20210426_112222.jpg
 
RedMick, if you are interested, I would be more than happy to show you what I bought and how much they were. If you are interested in possibly building something, I would be happy team up and could throw ideas at each other.
Sheepdale, thank you so much. That's very kind of you. Sent you a PM last night.

Anyway, I went into the shop I use for my supplies today and while I was in there I asked about filter related issues. They seemed a little surprised at the problems I'm having with the granulated carbon filter and suggested I try activating the carbon with hot rather than cold water.

To my surprise, they didn't try and sell me the pro filter but I did get some curious looks when I mentioned building my own.
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SheepDale
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by SheepDale »

Hi RedMick,
Hot water is the best to prepare it. I see there are three options for filtering. You (meaning anybody) could buy a pre-built filter system from a company such as Still Spirits which comes with a carbon block. You pour a bit of water in it to 'activate it' and then you use it. The second option is to use a tube of some sort and pour in activated carbon and push some water through it to activate it. The last option is the best option, but sadly like a lot of things good in life, it takes time. You would need to do the below.

1. Put the carbon into a stainless steel cooking pan and pour in hot or boiling water so that you have twice as much water as carbon.
2. Stir the carbon for a while to make sure everything is disturbed and is getting mixed up.
3. Leave it for 2 minutes, then pour out all of the water and fill it back up with more hit/boiling water. Mix it again, leave to settle, pour out the water and repeat so that 5 lots of hot water has been added. On the 5th time, leave the water in the pan.
4. Leave the pan for 24 hours with the water and carbon in it.
5. The next day, pour out the water and pour in hot water one last time and stir it for a short while.
6. Take your filter pipe and fill it a little over half way with water.
7. Pour out most of the water from the pan & then start adding the carbon to the filter pipe. You need the water in the pipe so the carbon can sink and find good resting places. If you do it dry it can leave air gaps and channels for the spirit to go through so it won't get filtered.
8. When you get to about the half way mark, the water you added may be close to the top of your tube, so let a little water out of the bottom. Sadly to be able to turn on and off the water flow, you will need to install a ball/needle valve at the bottom of your pipe or have some other way to block it off.
9. Keep pouring in your now activated carbon until it is full.

Now your tube is primed and ready to go. Now comes the hard part. Water will filter through the tube quicker than your tube. If you fill the tube with spirit, the first ?ml will be pure water then the spirit will start to come through. When you have filtered everything, the tube will naturality have some spirit still trapped around and in the carbon. You have two choices here. You can ignore what may be trapped and throw away the carbon, or you can try and release it by pouring water down the tube. Sadly the water will probably push past the spirit, so you may get more water out than spirit and you have just wasted time.

Two other big things to note is that you must not try to filter spirit that is above 50% ABV. The reason for this is that high spirit is so thin it will race through the carbon and it won't get filtered. I dilute my spirit to 45% ABV as when you filter it, because all of the extra water in the tube from the start, it will dilute down even more. Once I have filtered it, I take a measurement and then will add water to reach exactly 40% as that is what i like to keep it at.

The other big thing to note is the filter speed. If the spirit comes out too fast it won't be filtered very well or at all. There are two ways to reduce the speed. The first which is the cheapest is to just use 2-8 coffee or other style filters. These can be held around the bottom by a couple of strong elastic bands. The issue with doing it this way is that sometimes you may need 5 sheets, the next time 3 and the time after that 7. It will not be an exact science and something you will need to monitor each time you polish your spirit. The best was is to use a ball or needle valve as you can then completely turn off the flow when filling and preparing the carbon. Then when filtering, you can slowly open up the valve to let through just the right amount of spirit. The next question from you should be "So how slow or fats should it be?" The slower the better to be honest. If you let it go through too quickly, nothing will be filtered and you have just waisted your time and money. The slower the better as the slower the more contact the spirit has with the carbon and the more chance if the bad bits getting stuck inside the carbon. You want to aim for 100ml every 15 minutes. When you start filtering though, you don't want to wait for 15 minutes to see if it is too fast or too slow. So, work on around 2 drops per second. If you have a 5ml measuring cylinder (I bought the below from Amazon for £16) then you want to aim for 2.2ml every 20 seconds. If you find it is going too fast or too slow, open/close your valve a bit and try again. I throw what has come out back into the feed container so nothing is wasted.
 
jugs.png
 
So there you have it. There is a lot of other things to consider like the size of your tube, what it is made of and what carbon to use. If one thing hasn't been considered, sadly it will not work as well.
 
I am hoping to write a document around carbon filtering and what I have learnt by speaking to some spirit professionals and long term distillers as I want to help people. Do note though that pretty much nobody agrees that there is a full-proof way to filter. Everybody thinks that their way is the best way and all the other people are wrong. So what I say to do is what I think is right, but in no way do I have proof or evidence that I am correct, nobody can do that. Play, experiment and have fun doing it. If I can help give people pointers from what I have learnt, then great. Please though don't have a go at me if you disagree with what I have said. If you want to tell me what you do and what you found works for you or doesn't, do share, but please don't just shout I am wrong and not tell me why you think so and what works for you.

Cheers
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Re: Building Carbon Filter help

Post by glingwood »

It's been a while and I landed here by accident, but I went through all this 3 or 4 years ago so here's my thoughts on it.

A wider filtration column does NOT! become shorter, any more than a wider fractionating column becomes shorter, it just increases the speed of take-off speed.

Residual alcohol in filter bed: my method "warning" the first time is a pain in the arse. As the alcohol reaches the surface of the carbon pour water into the reservoir, put a parrot under the take-off valve, and collect the runnings, when the alco meter reads 10abv or zero or whatever you feel comfortable with you now know how much water it takes to flush your filtration column. In my case it's 2L to get to 10abv, so I keep an eye on when it's getting close, and just chuck in 2.5 to 3L of water then walk away. I save that takeoff and use it to proof down my next run, almost zero lost product.

fwiw: 2mtr x 50mm column 15L reservoir, 3 drops per second (ish) carbon from Grain & Grape/Kegland/StillSpirits even mix (one of them has to have it right surely) use it twice 30L then rejuvenate, use it one more time then into the vege patch it goes. caveat: there's been the odd occasion when the second use has been less than desired (probably my bad on the cuts leaving too much shit in the spirit for the carbon to deal with) so rejuvenate, use once more and toss.

We're (hopefully) talking neutral here, and any comments about cuts and clean washes DO apply, ya can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and a carbon filter is no substitute for good practice, but if you want to take your decent vodka to OMG! status (my Grey Goose drinking yuppie daughter) it's worth the time and effort, just don't expect me to drink it, I prefer flavour, although for my gins I use filtered spirit, it's a known baseline..
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