What size torch tips do you use?

[Prairiepiss]

Those that use a oxygen/ acetylene setup. Just curious what size tips you all use? And if you use different ones for different size pipe or work? Different solder?

While we are at it. What pressures do you run?

I got a new setup. And its running a lot different then the last one.

[mash rookie]

PP, I use Oxy Propane torches. My smallest one is larger than your cutting head. Your welding tips will be okay for brazing and hard soldering some joints where you need very accurate control but you will mostly want to use your cutting head with a soft reducing flame. The biggest mistake people make is overheating and burning away flux.
This will sound funny but that is easier to do with a torch that is too small for the job. By the time you get the material hot you have burned away the flux and have a dirty joint.
Using a larger torch allows you to heat the joint quickly and getting a flow before flux burns. Heat, apply filler and get out quickly. The best joints are fast and sweet.
I use a pinpoint welding tip when doing a site glasses. After prepping and clamping all fittings in place I heat from the inside with a large propane weed burner. Your oxy welding head will then hard solder easily at the point of attack. Allow temperature to even out for a while before shutting off the big torch and you will have less miss shaping.
MR

[Ayay]

Depends on the volume of copper. I use the ox-acetylene cutting head when there is a big volume of copper in order to melt the solder for silver brazing alloy/solder.

When brazing stainless steel I will be using 'easy silver solder'. Silver brazing alloys have a big variation. The higher the silver content of the solder the easier and more expensive it is. Less silver is cheaper and harder, but no problem for copper..

The the ox-acetylene cutting head is super-hot and makes short work on big volumes of copper, but it can be too hot when brazing stainless steel. Copper will survive harsh treatment, while stainless needs the gentle touch of lower temps and easy silver solder.

[Sungy]

I use Mapp gas and a turbo torch for small pipe up to 2" when soldering with 95 - 5. If using oxy acetaline (for silver solder 45% or silfos 15% ) I use a #1 tip for small pipe up to 1" and #4 tip for larger pipe. I prefer to run at 5lbs acetaline and 10 lbs oxy. Adjust the flame to give you a double blue cone with the outer cone just starting to feather out. Changing to a #4 tip is and running light on heat is more fuel efficient than running a #1 tip at high heat and you will get your parts hot fast with even temps.

[Samohon]

Like Sungy, I use Mapp gas with a 3/8" head. But I'm gonna upgrade to oxy/acetylene in a month or so to let me use copper/phospherous rods...

Those rods are self fluxing making the job a little easier...

[heynonny]

I heat with an acetelyne rosebud tip but I use propane gas. I have a propane regulator made for ox-propane use, but I think if your acet reg fits on your propane bottle, (some do), it would work. Otherwise, I TIG -hey-
Recently, I bought a new Lincoln mig/wirefeed welder, I wish I had gotten one 40 years ago, or whenever they 1st came on the market! It took about 5 minutes to pick this up. Its a "180 dual" voltage unit, uses 110-220 volts at 20 amps. Sweet

[Prairiepiss]

Well with the first set I tried a #4 with no luck. So I stepdad up to a #6 rosebud. And it worked great. But this was with a small regulator that could bairly keep up with it. I think a big part of my problem then was I was doing it outside. And I couldn't keep the material hot enough. A slight breeze would cool it off quick.

Well I got a bigger set of regulators and had to get a new #6 rosebud. Last one got damaged and I didn't trust it. I'm not working inside and the rosebud is to much heat I think? So I went and bought a #2 and a #4 to try out. I have a cutting tip I mite give a go too.

I'm using mainly hard solder. And it has to be red hot to get it to flow. I've used flux and yesterday I did it without any flux. But I cleaned it very well. And to tell you the truth. I couldn't tell any difference in flow. Just when using flux it makes a mess. I think I'm done with the flux. We will see on that one.

I mite try propane to see how it works. I have 3 tanks I can try.

I just got to get back into the swing of it. And learn to drive my new torch inside.

I use mapp and soft solder for small stuff. That's no big deal.

[mash rookie]

Hard silver will flow without flux but will flow a little better with flux. I use the same flux when hard soldering copper as I use for stainless. "Stay Silv" Remember, you do not have to heat things red hot. Use just enough indirect heat until you flow than get out.

If it will fit, put your work in the wife’s oven for a while before you start. Heat it to 450 or so. Dont forget the gloves. It will hold that heat for a while making it easier to get your work up to temp. Work fast, work sweet. Touch and go.

Propane is much cheaper than acetylene and works well. It will pay for the different tips quickly.

Here is another soldering tip for you. Find a pottery supply or craft store and purchase a couple dollars worth of kiln shelf primer. It comes in powder form. Mix a small amount and paint it where you do not want solder to flow. It will dry in a couple of minutes and stay on until wiped off with a dry rag after your work has cooled. In the same fashion, you can apply flux very accurately with a small artist brush. Both a lot easier than pollishing ugly joints.
MR

[Bushman]

Good info MR, nice to learn from experienced people!

[Prairiepiss]

Just fired it up to make 2 easy flanges. Used the #2 tip and all I can say is. Nice

Lot better then before when I was working outside. Now I mite be able to make something that looks good.

While I'm posting. I have both stay silv black and white fluxes. They are a little dried out. Is there anything I can add to it to get it wet again. It's not completely dried out. But it don't spread as good any more. Bad storage at the last house.

[mash rookie]

Just add a little water and mix well. I have had fluxes around for ten years. You can let them dry completely and sift to a powder. Heat your rod and dip in the powder to coat. They never go bad. Now go out and buy a selection of flux brushes and a couple of small stainless wire brushes for working hot. You are on your way PP. You will be giving lessons soon.

[Sungy]

I use the stay silv all the time..Im a refrigeration mechanic and trust me when I say this. Clean everything well. Then use flux. Clean up flux that is not where you need it. Sand your silver coil and heat up your work. Copper to copper joints are a breeze no flux needed, but any dirty material or overheating will have possible leaks contamination leaks. . The flux is a must for dis-similar metals. The biggest problem I see is people using to much flux. And yes its a pain in the ass to chip it off.
When dried out I use water to thin it out.

As for torch tips its better to use a larger tip lightly (more spread out) than a smaller tip hard.(more direct contact and chances of burning right threw material)

[Prairiepiss]

Thanks MR I thought I read that somewhere. But I could remember for sure it was water.


Sungy that was the problems I had when working outside. The smaller tips wouldn't heat it up enough. So I would get closer and blow the copper out. I'm going to play with the #4 tonight. See how it goes. I would really like to have a smaller rosebud. But don't want to spend any more money. Ok I don't have the money for it.

Has anyone seen the little jewellers torch head harbor freight is selling now? I looked at one like it at a local welding supply house over a year ago. And now HF is selling one. And its a lot cheaper. I would like to have one to play with. For some other stuff I do.

[Prairiepiss]

Ok fired up the #4 tonight. I like the tip. Worked good. And I used some flux. That part I'm not liking. I couldn't tell much diff in using it. Still got to get it hot as hell to flow. I don't know. I've got enough builds coming up. I will get it dialed in.

[mash rookie]

PP. On heavier pieces you will not easily get to the flow temp with a small torch no matter how hot the tip. Sungy is spot on about having everything clean and prepared. Here is another description. Once you have everything ready to go, fit, clean and fluxed. Start with heating away from the joint in a circular motion to build heat in the general area. Once close to flow temp start to introduce hard solder until it starts to flow. Once you have flow use your torch to "coax" the silver to flow where you want it to go. Use a lot of heat but do not overheat. Am I making any sense?

[Prairiepiss]

Yes you are. And that's what I've been working on. Just got to get it right. Once I get it right I won't have as many problems. Just right now I'm working with two different thickness materials. That aren't in good open positions. Tonight went pretty good. But not great. I'm getting there.

Don't get me wrong. I've been getting the job done good enough up to this point. I'm just trying to fine tune and get better at it.

I do appreciate your help. Thanks.

[Sungy]

Glad its feeling better in you capable grip. I find if I chip the slag off of the stay silv joint with a pocket screwdriver when it is hot it comes off in chunks. Much easier than when it cools, and has to be sanded off.

Using only the flux you need. no extra.

[mash rookie]

Here is another soldering tip that I was showing BM last week. This technique requires a oxy torch. When bundling my spiral condenser tubes together it is impossible to get a tight enough fit that solder will pull in like a plumbing joint. Large fills simply get hot and run out whether using soft or hard solder. This trick works best with soft silver solder but will work with hard silver if you can afford to use that much expensive solder.

I fill a metal tray with water to a level that will cover ½ of my work. I add a little muratic acid to the water to about a 5-10% solution. Be careful not to use too much as the fumes are dangerous. The water bath is a heat sink and has also become a pickling solution.

This is where you will use the stainless brushes I suggested. After finding a way to hold the pieces together, hose clamps, bailing wire etc, lay it in the tray. I apply a small amount of water based flux in the deepest fill area. Use a large hot flame heat and apply solder. Again, get in and get out. When it flows get out quick. The solder will set quickly staying where you put it. A quick touch of flame at the edges will sweeten your fill. Turn your work and solder the other side. Use a small amount of heat and scrub joints with brush and pickle water. The more acid you use the less flux necessary. I like to use both. The key of course is having a large enough flame to heat something laying in water. I would describe it like torch welding with solder.

[Sungy]

Good tip..Can learn sommit new every day. gonna have to try that

[freespirited]

IDK if it will help now. I use a #3 tip. I heat the thicker material first and work toward the thinner material and where I want the flow to go. I even heat around the piece instead of just where I am at soldering. Normal setting for cutting would be 30/5 I have found I run more like 25/4. I also do not open the air enough to tighten the flame. A wider flame further from the material seems to work better for me. I also only hard solder when absolutely necessary . Soft solder works on just about anything that isnt going to be heated by surrounding projects or is not a butt joint. Black flux is definitely a friend on SS to copper

[XFABCALGARY]

not sure how to post an image but i use oxy/propane cutting torches and a 0 tip is plenty for heating and cutting up to one inch material. oxy/ propane is ideal for this type of work because it has a lower thermal temperature than acetylene but a higher btu. always use a neutral flame.

the few tips i would give are learn flow temps... take some scrap material and torch it, have a $25 laser thermometer handy and when the specified solder flows nice shoot the temp and record. next heat your joint evenly all around, if soldering dissimilar metals heat the more noble of the two first (ss then copper, as copper has a higher rate of thermal conductivity and will draw heat. copper will heat faster and it will cool faster so keep heat on the copper as you lay solder to joint) once your material is at the flow temp then apply solder. applying solder when to cold leads to undesirable joints! if you are soldering out of position, heat the joint evenly but when you apply solder move the heat to the top side of the joint and lay solder from the bottom up as solder will travel to the heat source.

oh and clean, clean and clean the copper it should shine before you solder it emery cloth is great.

Regards R

edit : if the joint is not as tight as desired ; heat mostly the male side of the joint as it will expand first and possibly tighten up the joint

[freespirited]

I would have to dis agree with a couple things above. One you do not always use a neutral flame. A carburizing flame can help when brazing in some situations. Second, since overheating SS can lead to embrittlement I would suggest heating more toward the copper allowing the heat to transfer to the SS as there are no negative effects to the copper unless you burn a hole in it, so be sure to work the flame

[XFABCALGARY]

I would have to dis agree with a couple things above. One you do not always use a neutral flame. A carburizing flame can help when brazing in some situations. Second, since overheating SS can lead to embrittlement I would suggest heating more toward the copper allowing the heat to transfer to the SS as there are no negative effects to the copper unless you burn a hole in it, so be sure to work the flame

Embrittlement of a Stainless Steel forms in ferritic and austenitic stainless steels during exposure at the temperature range 1,050 °F to 1,800 °F (560 °C to 980
°C) this requires EXTENDED high thermal exposure , a high carbon content and exposure to elements that just will not be seen here!

the first thing you learn in trade school is that oxy welding, braze welding and brazing All require one to balance a torch!!!! a balanced torch by definition means a neutral flame: equal pressure oxy and acetylene. this is for safety !!!!!!! also the worst thing you can do to stainless steel is add carbon so why carburizing???? rarely and i mean seldom, if bronze will not flow one can add a slight carburizing flame to get the bronze to flow.

http://www.parasalloys.com/brazing_guideline.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
"Adjust Torch Flames
For most brazing jobs using oxygen-acetylene gases, a neutral' flame should be used. The neutral flame has a well-defined inner cone. Avoid an oxidizing flame."


as far as copper vs stainless heating, stainless steel will hold heat a multitude times longer than copper, read what i posted, always heat the more noble material first ( ss) then move to cooper. i did not say only heat stainless i suggest a re read an a quote next time

Regards R

[freespirited]

I read it just fine. Apparently you cannot read. I never stated using carburizing for SS. I stated using it is sometimes better in the brazing world. 2) I have seen a few people cause embrittlement to SS on here so dont say it cannot happen 3) I jumped off track here I was refering to soft solder. Since the SS will hold the heat there is no need to heat it first and in my experience I have never needed to use a direct flame on the SS when joining copper and I do use the torches for this process.

[XFABCALGARY]

iwas just doing what you did apply what ever was said how ever i felt! to be honest i don't really care how you do anything do it any old farmers way you choose ! i was replying to the op!!! i use direct flame on ss most days lots of it pre heat-inter-pass temperature - post heat

where is all this embrittlement???

[freespirited]

I do not wish to lead this too far off the path of the OP but you cannot certainly think that embrittlement doesnt happen when it happens at prolonged temps lower than the melting point of the silver rods? Many people think that since its not soldering together it needs more heat. And I hope that you were not insulting farmers with that statement, as you are drinking their discovery.

While we are on the subject I do have a question that may be of benefit to anyone reading this. It has been discussed before that using silver solder flux containing acid should be used to etch the SS. Is water enough to remove the phosphorus poisons when you are finished?

[WIski]

Thanx for the graet info XFAB...... Going to check out the Oxy/Propane.

[drinkingdog]

I have a smaller cutting torch which does a really good job on larger items. A year ago I bought a jewelry torch set. Absolutely love it especially when working in tight corners, like condensers ect. That way you don't blow the solder of something you just soldered. Works really nice.