Jimbo's Apple Thread

Any hardware used in the mashing /fermenting or aging of product

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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby kurgan » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:51 am

I never was able to get those apples. Better luck next year I hope.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby corene1 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:43 pm

Hey Jimbo! I have been building a new feed auger for Tree Top Apple juice and couldn't help but think of your thread here. This is maybe a bit to big for the hobbyist
, 72 inches by 14 inch diameter, but it would sure feed a lot of apples into the grinder. :lol: :lol:
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Jimbo » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:24 pm

You're doing fabrication for a commercial juice outfit? Very cool!! :thumbup: And sounds like a hell of a connection to butter up for some pressings :) maybe need to test that auger out for 55 gallons before releasing it to production. Gotta be quality minded and all, looking out for the best interest of Tree Top of course :ebiggrin:
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Bing-Bot » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:33 pm

I wonder if you put that 14 in auger in a 14 1/2 ss tube with small holes in bottom end of it and turned it with an electric motor you could feed apples on top end and juice come out the other by pushing them down and compressing rather than having to grind and then press. (Obviously the auger would be strait up and down and holes on bottom and a big funnel at the top). Kinda like a screw press only being an auger.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby corene1 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:52 pm

Jimbo wrote:You're doing fabrication for a commercial juice outfit? Very cool!! :thumbup: And sounds like a hell of a connection to butter up for some pressings :) maybe need to test that auger out for 55 gallons before releasing it to production. Gotta be quality minded and all, looking out for the best interest of Tree Top of course :ebiggrin:

It is really a strange job. Tree Top is in Oregon and we are in Central California. They somehow heard of us from a friend we do work for up in Tehachapi on the big wind mill farms and asked if we could make the auger . No Problem, sure seems like they could find a shop closer to home, so I probably won't be getting any juice, but it still reminded me of your post.
To Halfbaked, The auger attaches to the grinder on the end of the shaft and works as a single unit. I would love to see it in action. There is a guy in town here that has a small grinding and pressing facility and I am trying to get some juice from him but he is too expensive. He is making way more money selling it as Organic juice. $7.00 per 1/2 gallon.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby LWTCS » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:06 pm

corene1 wrote: $7.00 per 1/2 gallon.


Cane Lady by me wants $6 for a 12ounce bottle,,,,and she has folks standing in line.

5 gallons is a utility bill.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby corene1 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:57 pm

LWTCS wrote:
corene1 wrote: $7.00 per 1/2 gallon.


Cane Lady by me wants $6 for a 12ounce bottle,,,,and she has folks standing in line.

5 gallons is a utility bill.



WOW!!!! I guess living in the heart of Agriculture has it's advantages. That's over $30 per 1/2 gallon!
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby ChairLawyer » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:01 pm

Corene
Tehachapi ... ?!? Near Bakersfield?
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Jimbo » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:38 pm

Good Lord, fresh pressed cider around here goes for 7 or 8 a gallon. And I thought that was nuts. Looking at it another way tho, that's about 17, 18 lbs of apples. At the best prices anywhere in season it's still $9 worth of apples.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby corene1 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:35 am

ChairLawyer wrote:Corene
Tehachapi ... ?!? Near Bakersfield?

Yep, we are just down the hill.
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2013 Apple Brandy Runs

Postby Jimbo » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:03 am

Well I just finished the 2013 apple runs. This year I split the cider into 3 batches and used 3 different yeasts. From these I did 3 seperate slow single runs, and a 4th all feints run. Kept them all seperate throughout and aging them seperately as well on oak. I also bottled some cider from each batch to compare, and did a corny keg of blended cider for drinkin, Here's my observations on the yeasts. The apples were a blend of 5 varieties this year, some tart, some sweet.

Lalvin EC-1118 - Cleanest by far, and highest yielding. For drinking cider my least favorite, too plain, doesnt add any nice fruity esters so its just dry tart cider. After distilling however it revealed the apple the most, and gave the highest yield (less cuts).

Lalvin 71B-1122 - Nice yeast, first time trying this one. Unique slightly fruity esters, went nice and dry 0.995. This yeast is able to metabolize malic acid, so it softens the cider. The combination of lower tartness and fruity esters make the cider very drinkable now without aging. The brandy is interesting, unique character, doesnt cover the apples but lays something on top thats interesting

Cotes des Blancs - Fruitiest and least attenuative (didnt go totally dry, 0.999). The cider is really nice, fruity and slightly sweet. Highest esters of the 3 yeasts, made the brandy tricky. The early part of the run was very headsy, aldehydey. It was tough making cuts with this one. I ended up having the lowest yield, but still the highest estery fruityness in the brandy. I have a sneaky suspicion that this one might turn out the best tho after a year on oak. Its big now, so time and oak I think are really gonna bring this one around nice.

All Feints Run - The keep cut from the runs above was about 50% by volume, more for 1118, less for cpotes des blancs, so I ended up with lots of feints. I ran these together (without the fores) and it cleaned up really nice. The keep cut was really wide, fruity, appley and clean. At the end of the day I might blend all 4 runs together and barrel it. But for now they are aging seperately with a 1x1x5" charred oak stick in each quart jar.

Cheers.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Bing-Bot » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:03 am

Jimbo 1 statement and one question.

Statement - I think your last post is worthy of a completely more informative thread in its self. Not everyone (me especially) around here is a yeast expert. I would like to know temps also. I know I can get this from mfgs but they are selling it and you are using it and not trying to get me use it. I have seen informative yeast posts but none that were done like this. Good comparisons would like more on how dry they went and how much less the Cotes des Blancs than the ec-1118 and down to how much less finished goods you got. Honestly, I could care less about the yield and 100000% about the finished product. I bet the feints run is as good or better than original product.

Question - if you used the Cotes des Blancs and when it was finished drop some ec-1118 to get the last drop what is your take on that? Would that help squeeze the last drop out and would it have any bad effects?
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Jimbo » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:53 am

Sure you could drop in another yeast to take it dryer after the first yeast throws in the towel. As long as the first doesnt have the K1 factor. This is common in high gravity beer makin. Original yeast for flavor, another high gravity tolerant yeast to crank the alc. etc.

With cider and some wines there's also a malolactic fermentation that is a type of secondary fermentation done via late innoculation with certain lactic acid bacterias and other lacto and pedio strains. Dont think it adds to the ethanol much but its the same principle youre talking about and turns the tart malic acid into a softer lactic acid. In Chardonnay wines its commonly done to produce a buttery character from the diacetyls it produces.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby frunobulax » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:36 am

A guy at our home brew club meeting last night told me he was making a hard cider for a friend of his to run. He got the cider from a local orchard, $25.00 for 5 gallons, which sounds reasonable to me.
I'm gonna pick up 10 gallons to make a brandy. Do you think I should do a single run or a 1.5 run? Do I need pectic enzymes or anything for this? I never made a brandy before, what do ya think I'll get from 10 gallons, 3 quarts?
Thanks.....
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Bushman » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:00 am

frunobulax wrote:A guy at our home brew club meeting last night told me he was making a hard cider for a friend of his to run. He got the cider from a local orchard, $25.00 for 5 gallons, which sounds reasonable to me.
I'm gonna pick up 10 gallons to make a brandy. Do you think I should do a single run or a 1.5 run? Do I need pectic enzymes or anything for this? I never made a brandy before, what do ya think I'll get from 10 gallons, 3 quarts?
Thanks.....

I go from apples to cider to fermentation to distilling. Not sure what you mean by a 1/2 a run? Once through will give you your brandy flavor as far as what you should get that sounds about right as your yield will probably be 8% or a bit less without sugar (my recommendation). Remember to be liberal with your heads cut as fruit tends to yield a bit higher percentage.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby frunobulax » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:12 am

Thanks, I meant a One and a half run.., strip 5 gallons and add it too the other 5 gallons of wash and do the spirit run..
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Bushman » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:29 am

frunobulax wrote:Thanks, I meant a One and a half run.., strip 5 gallons and add it too the other 5 gallons of wash and do the spirit run..

Thanks for clarifying it for me, I should have figured it out!
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Jimbo » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:18 am

fruno, you need to taste the first run to know whether youll want to do 1 1/2 or maybe even a full double run. Most years Ive done a single run with apple brandy and been happy, some years tho I just wasnt completely satisfied and did 1 1/2 or 2 (been making apple brandy for 20 years). Also, I finish the year with an all feints run, which is a double or 2 1/2 depending what came before, and that usually gives something pretty nice to add to the main barrel.

This is another very subjective thing, but for me I 'usually' like a single run for apple brandy, eau de vie's and rum, and a double run for all grain whiskies.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby dirtywhitedog » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:12 pm

This has been a very informative thread for me. I recently acquired 100+ lbs of apples and 3 gallons of local fresh cider for free. Im looking to make a brandy. Jimbo, From what i was originally estimating, I thought I might get around 15 gals of juice from a brevelle juicer and a vitamix working in tandem. Now, I think that may be a bit of an over estimation. Do you think id be better off estimating around 10 gals? Do you ferment open, or under an airlock? Do you ferment on the pulp? If not, what do you use the pulp for? Grappa? And finally, what is your yeild per gallon of cider?
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby bellybuster » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:04 am

you guys are killin me!!!!! Like I need another project. Now I'm looking at building a press and grinder. This forum will be the end of me..

On a high note, I live in the middle of apple country
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby bellybuster » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:14 am

I think Jimbo needs to be banned for awhile until I can catch up on my projects. Should only be about 15 years
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Jimbo » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:30 am

you guys are funny, :thumbup:

Belly, you live in the middle of apple country and havent built a grinder/press yet? samatta witchu man!

dirtywhitedog, think I answered all those questions in my original post(s). I get about 1 1/3 gallons per 5 gal bucket full of apples, which is about 23lbs of apples. With the cuts I make, It takes me 26-28lbs of apples (varies year to year) for every finished bottled 80 proof fifth.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Bing-Bot » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:34 pm

So up until a week or 2 ago I was not a fan of apple brandy. I had some that changed my mind and am now a huge fan. It is really funny and shocks me how many trees just popped up that I had never seen and every one I see is loaded. Jimbo if your apple eqipment disappeared for what ever reason tomorrow what would you change on your next build? Bigger/better/faster or build it the exact same way?????? I understand 26-28lbs of apples per finished fifth. How many pounds of apples per gal of juice?
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Jimbo » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:40 pm

What did you have last week that changed your mind baked? Did you pick up a good bottle of French Calvados?

If I did the press again, I would just put more care into the stainless screws on the drum that do the apple grinding. I have multiple double rows with what appears a good spacing, but some of the chunks of apple are bigger than Id like. It varies from mush to pieces the size of a dime. If it was all consistently the size of wheat, say, my yield would be better. I get a gallon from every 18 lbs roughly with an 8 ton press. I think that could be better with a smaller grind.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Bing-Bot » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:14 pm

[quote="Jimbo"]What did you have last week that changed your mind baked? Did you pick up a good bottle of French Calvdos/quote]

Absolutely not. What I had was made in the USA. And yes it was real good. At least I think it was. I was not reading well at the time. It must have been beer because it was in a beer bottle and it didn't burn going down and I could taste8 what I thought was about 20lb of apples in my bottle. Never had a beer punch like that
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby rager » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:24 pm

halfbaked wrote:
Jimbo wrote:What did you have last week that changed your mind baked? Did you pick up a good bottle of French Calvdos/quote]

Absolutely not. What I had was made in the USA. And yes it was real good. At least I think it was. I was not reading well at the time. It must have been beer because it was in a beer bottle and it didn't burn going down and I could taste8 what I thought was about 20lb of apples in my bottle. Never had a beer punch like that



what was the proof?

tons of micro cider companies popping up lately

I had a tenant who worked a major commercial beer company. he was able to score me 7 cases of 100% cider . stripped it all then spirit run and after cuts only ended up with a bout 400 ml of 100p . very nice flavor . thinking about using a piece of oak from an AG to age the brandy

btw I can get fresh pressed cider for 5 dollars a gallon. which seems great compared to what others are paying.

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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Bing-Bot » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:56 am

Sorry Rager I was playing. It was not beer but Calvados in a beer bottle. I think it was 80 proof.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby SoMo » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:00 am

Jimbo, I want some!!
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby Jimbo » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:27 am

Ah yes, the Grolsch bottle. haha, you goof baked, you drank that at Windys house. Thought you bought something good last week. Anyway, glad you like it. I think that was 2012's batch. The cuts are tricky on apple brandy. I think 2012's was a little too, uh..., compassionate to the spirit, lets say. Altho its getting better with age. 2013 I tightened just a skosh, and used multiple yeasts. Man its turning out nice, almost a year old now.
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Jimbo's Apple Thread

Postby midwest shinner » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:50 am

Id agree with you on that Jimbo, your 2013 apple brandy may be my favorite of the few years i tried. I think I am starting to get the hang of brandy cuts a bit better now myself, they are just so different from whiskey or rum cuts. I actually have a couple apple products myself that you've gotta try. And if you want some assistance picking again this year I'm totally in. I should probably build myself a scratter and press too I'm thinking with how much i love apple cider&brandy
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