SPP Packing

[Saltbush Bill]

A 3 inch boka will do better that 2.5L an hour running copper mesh......so I wouldn't pay to much attention to that figure.

[Salt Must Flow]

A 3 inch boka will do better that 2.5L an hour running copper mesh......so I wouldn't pay to much attention to that figure.

It could be their claim because they appear to be using wire that is way undersized. They emailed saying it can run twice as fast as they claim on their website. Huge disparity in their claims. No consistency.

[bitter]

I can do 3 to 3.5 lph with copper blocker packing in my 3 inch that's really clean. Slows at end the run. I can do 5.3 lph but not clean.

Both were with 40 percent in boiler

3.5x3.5 has much more surface area, so it’s easier to get high ABV alcohol, by using SPPs. As an example, you can have look at our column Cosmo 3 inch which has 3 feet of height filled with SPP 3.5mm with power of 3000w it’s able to produce 5 quarts an hour of 96.0-96.6 ABV.

If you’re going to use 5x5 SPP and wish to have a closer result, you could heat with more power than 3kwt, because 5x5 SPP has much more space to come through and by having a height of 3 feet or 4 feet it’s going to produce 95-96 ABV with the speed of 5-6 quarts.

Now if you go to their website you'll notice that it claims their 3" still with 3.5x3.5 SPP can produce 2.5 lph (0.66 gph). Well their email claims it produces 4.7 lph (1.25 gph) that's a HUGE disparity. I don't know what to believe, but they made it clear, at least in the email they sent me, they recommend the 3.5x3.5 SPP over the 5.5x5.5. I just figured I'd post this information in case it helps anyone.

Based on traditional SPP dimensions, the 5.5x5.5 wire appears significantly undersized if I'm not mistaken. It is my understanding the wire 5x5x5 SPP traditionally use wire between 0.6-0.7 mm and theirs use 0.2 mm wire.
[/quote]

Thanks that's interesting. I want to make my own to save bucks

"2.5 L/h of alcohol at 3000 watts" there is the answer 3000 w. I bet will run at higher watts and produce more. They also most likely using low abv worst case in boiler so most people will be above what they advise. 4.7 lph likely higher watts but how clean..

[BrewinBrian44]

I’d be afraid of flooding a 3” column with that smaller packing from everything I’ve read on HD. Much of the info online tends to be somewhat theoretical, but I’m compelled to trust Dad300 and Odin due to their vast experience.

Maybe in practice their 3.5mm is fine. I’m way off target with my 3” column with the 5mm stuff, but it seemed to work well when I used it.

From that email, it makes sense why I’m needing to run so much power to create an aquatic environment.

Another thing to note, the larger sized SPP is probably easier to dry with a box fan since there’s more open area. Nice plus

[bitter]

I’d be afraid of flooding a 3” column with that smaller packing from everything I’ve read on HD. Much of the info online tends to be somewhat theoretical, but I’m compelled to trust Dad300 and Odin due to their vast experience.

Maybe in practice their 3.5mm is fine. I’m way off target with my 3” column with the 5mm stuff, but it seemed to work well when I used it.

From that email, it makes sense why I’m needing to run so much power to create an aquatic environment.

Another thing to note, the larger sized SPP is probably easier to dry with a box fan since there’s more open area. Nice plus

I agree 100% Dad300 and Odin have alot of real world experience. I think larger liek 5x5 will be what I aim for base don the table I posted also the power needs. I only have 5500 Watts and worry that too big I won't have enough power.

I like the more open SPP but getting that to work.. will take some playing.. Also liek a bit more heavey wire to support the weight. Dad300 made many refurenced to about 30" of SPP in his 3" last I seen said 4 LPH if I get that be nice a bit more be better.. I keep wondering if I need more for more place will clean things even better.. and push tails further out and also work better with lower ABV in he boiler. Lots to learn..

My copper blocker packing is realatively tight and is a fine liek to get to right right.. be nice to have a no worry set it and forget it 4 LPH and maybe wider cuts too.. and still be perfectly clean.. I normally don't get much mroe than 50% on a run that is perfectly clean to me.. outside that I can detect other things and for gin.. I like the cleanest neutral possible to make the best gin...

I also want to give making pur whiskey but Ian S. a go again.. with SPP. It works with packing I currently have.. I seee odin said it also worked. Aparenly nice wide cuts I bet clean too and will age pretty fast.. like 1 year be really drinkable/smooth and nice oak I bet. At least the couple batches I ran did.

B

[sergiolis]

7 Years later still not got SPP for my 3" Boka.

Wth copper blocker I can get a clean 3 to 3.5 LPH with a 40% charge and 5.33 LPH both at 95%

I see odins post of OSPP and bunch of different sized Dad300 rferfs to size C .. So what size.. Based on reading 1/10 to 1/12 the column size means about 6.5 to 7.8mm My goal is the go a bit faster than 3 LPH say 4 LPH and be rock solid whole run till done.. I can easily put about 52" - scrubbies to hold it.. but seen DAD300 only needs 30" Trying to figure out if better to buy or try making it.. Also was reading on marbles and lava rock too.. but liek the idea of SPP in stainless for easy cleaning.

B

I was using SPP 4,4 x 5,5 x 0,24 mm for a long time in a 3" column (packed about 125cm height). The spot was 5.4 LPH (90ml/min) on hearts.
Don't know why but russians (in general terms) don't care so much about the relationship between column diameter and SPP size. From 2x2x0,2mm to 5x5x0.3mm they choose the size basicly depending on the purity they need to get. If you want 96.4 abv go for a smaller one (more contact surface), if you are happy with 95abv go for a bigger one and you will run faster. It's all about contact surface and air space.
The average and the most popular size is about 3.5x3.5mm x 0.25mm wire... I would try it! it's a miracle!

What I would like to know if more density (a greater number of spirals per square inch) provides more flooding at a given wattage... Because we love a controlled flooding but we want to save watts.
I would appreciate it if someone could clarify this relationship.

[bitter]

I was using SPP 4,4 x 5,5 x 0,24 mm for a long time in a 3" column (packed about 125cm height). The spot was 5.4 LPH (90ml/min) on hearts.
Don't know why but russians (in general terms) don't care so much about the relationship between column diameter and SPP size. From 2x2x0,2mm to 5x5x0.3mm they choose the size basicly depending on the purity they need to get. If you want 96.4 abv go for a smaller one (more contact surface), if you are happy with 95abv go for a bigger one and you will run faster. It's all about contact surface and air space.
The average and the most popular size is about 3.5x3.5mm x 0.25mm wire... I would try it! it's a miracle!

What I would like to know if more density (a greater number of spirals per square inch) provides more flooding at a given wattage... Because we love a controlled flooding but we want to save watts.
I would appreciate it if someone could clarify this relationship.

Thanks that's good real life data i'm looking for. What was the source or it even still available.. 5.4 LPH and clean would be pretty awesome! I don't care about % so long as close to azero. I care that its clean.. I am tended to look at the stuff that is larger wire.. and most open.. at least that's what I want to make. Also 308 or 316 SS

I was thinking column full of 5x7.5mm and open as possible Also heavier wire like DAD300 was mentioning I like the idea of.. like .023" to .03x" I think he mentioned.. I think .023 to .025 is most common mig wire here.. so likely end up with that..

I also like what odin mentioned helicoil or OSSP.. I bet that could work out well also.. just were would you get that in liters.. if price was right would go this route as Odin mentions is cleaner than SPP.


B

[sergiolis]

If you live in Europe.. mine came from Poland some years ago: https://pracowniametaloplastyczna.pl/
At that time the website was in english too... But Nowadays if you google serach many russians are selling it ... but I think not as bigger as you want. I wouldn't go so big. It's a compromise between purity and product collection. If you have a very effective SPP (small size) you always can decide to go a bit faster collecting at let's say 95... Many many russians are using columns and SPP to make clean vodka, so I trust them, but of course this is a personal choice.... Right now I'm using Same SPP as I told you in a 3.5" column and i'm getting 96.3 % at 10.8 LPH. On the other hand I need between 9.3 - 10.8 Kw to work at its best

[bitter]

If you live in Europe.. mine came from Poland some years ago: https://pracowniametaloplastyczna.pl/
At that time the website was in english too... But Nowadays if you google serach many russians are selling it ... but I think not as bigger as you want. I wouldn't go so big. It's a compromise between purity and product collection. If you have a very effective SPP (small size) you always can decide to go a bit faster collecting at let's say 95... Many many russians are using columns and SPP to make clean vodka, so I trust them, but of course this is a personal choice.... Right now I'm using Same SPP as I told you in a 3.5" column and i'm getting 96.3 % at 10.8 LPH. On the other hand I need between 9.3 - 10.8 Kw to work at its best

Thanks yeah I can only run so fast with a keg boiler.. 10.8 LPH would really empty my setup fast lol... like less than 2 hours wow.. be nice though to produce more clean neutral to have on hand when needed... and mainly make gin..

[BrewinBrian44]

Great info coming out… love it.

I don’t have the means or time to make the stuff, so it’s great to hear about real world results from the stuff we can buy.

[shaawnzee]

I've been monitoring this thread for a few years and thinking of pulling the trigger on a new column of SPP. I currently run a 2" x36" LM/VM with 5500W capability from a keg boiler.
Is there any harm in going from a 2" keg fitting to a 3" column, then back down to 2" for the top sides?

I've found multiple places online for buying SPP, but unsure the best to go (thinking 3.5x3.5) with as well as a reliable source. I see Doctor Gradus, but like mentioned above, the wire/mass seems small.
I also see the Selivanenko etched, but aliexpress won't ship to the US and their parent website looks like it may not have been managed in a while.

Sorry if these are rudimentary questions. It's been about three years since reading this entire thread.

Thank you for the help.

[elbono]

I got mine from the polish guy sergiolis mentions above. I got 1 liter for $55 with shipping to the US, I actually received about 1 1/4 liter and a pad for supporting it. I just started cleaning protocols so I can't comment on performance other than it seems a lot cleaner than the gradus stuff mentioned above. He sells on eBay as still4you. My order still shows as not shipped 6 months later but I got it in about a month.

The downside is it appears he only makes a batch every so often so you need to be patient.

Here's his specs (polish of course)
Materiał – stal kwasoodporna AISI 304
Ciężar właściwy – 880 g/dm³
Wymiary – 4,4 x 5,5 x 0,24 mm
Powierzchnia właściwa (p/v) – 1900 dm²/dm³
Objętość wolna – 0,89
Maksymalne obciążenie cieplne – 115 W/cm²
HETP – 20 mm

I'll publish distillation results here when I have some.

[shaawnzee]

Thank you for that info.

From the chart linked above, my column intentions, and my power limitations, wouldn't those be a bit too big?

[elbono]

I haven't run the spp yet so no experience but he claims these are for 1500 to 4000 watts. Found the website in English.

I believe the is the same Piotr that I have seen mentioned here

and this stuff is pretty tiny

[bitter]

From the site https://stillforyou.com/produkt/spiral- ... c-packing/
maximumheat load – 115 W/cm2

My 3" column is 77mm inside or 7.7cm soo that is about 3.85^2 × π = 46.566
46.566 * 115 = 5355 Watts of power as a Max

So to me they look about perfect in terms of power rating. My old concern is the wire thickness and will its start collapsing at 1.3m in a 3" tube

B

[shaawnzee]

Bitter,

My column would be closer to 3', so that might be some cushion there. My concern about my max power is one of inexperience. I have an 8" crossflow on top (also 2") and flow rates of hot water output always seemed higher than what others report (no hard data to report here). If I have to run wide open to flood, I'm not sure I can tame it. Am I off on my thoughts here?

[bitter]

Bitter,

My column would be closer to 3', so that might be some cushion there. My concern about my max power is one of inexperience. I have an 8" crossflow on top (also 2") and flow rates of hot water output always seemed higher than what others report (no hard data to report here). If I have to run wide open to flood, I'm not sure I can tame it. Am I off on my thoughts here?

SPP does best we just before flooding. Highest takoff and highest ABV typically.. once you find hte sweet spot. This is all from reading. I don't have SPP but want some.. My Boka I can run abot 5.3LPH with 40% charge but was not as clean as I liked and felt was on the edge. I typically run 3 to 3.5 LPH. This is with Copper blocker.. Its packed faily tight.. it took a few tires to get it the right spot.

I typiclal strip everything reflux but pushing ti to get as high ABV as possible.. before things drop off and then cut things back to 40% for my spirit run.. I want to do the same with SPP.. to end with the best cleanest possible.. I expect won't be any better than my 3 to 3.5 LPH as its very clean.. just tastes like nothing and sweet. But run faster with SPP.. 4 LPH or more be nice.. Odin did 5.5 LPH on a 3" and running numbers before reading I was thinking that be about max. Heck Odin did 4 LPH on a 2".. To me ists about cleanest possible slate for gin.

Alos if I can run faster might start doign most my whisky this way (Canadian) as it will age faster and its a nice light whiskey.. use Making Pure whisky Ian Smiley way. For my Irish and others will still do in pot mode after collecting forshot/ealy heads in reflux liek I currently do.

B

[shaawnzee]

Sounds like we have similar goals with speed being the desired improvement.

I've been using marbles for a bit. My last run at 40%, I found a nice semi-flooded regime around 2500W and pulled azeo the entire run, but at only 2-2.3L/hr....and I had a 42L charge... I want to speed that up.

[sergiolis]

Don't worry so much about the SPP size. You will be playing with a wonderful packing, It's really effective so there is a considerable margin to play with. There are many oher factors involved but you just need to fit your column ( power, height, condenser efficiency, takeoff rate, etc) and you will get a very clean spirit if this is what you want.
With a 3" about 120cm packed height you should get on hearts 80-90ml/min at 2800-3100w, 96%abv. Average numbers but you will be close to that.

[shaawnzee]

Thank you sergiolis, bitter, and elbono.

[Salt Must Flow]

Thank you sergiolis, bitter, and elbono.

elbono?

[shaawnzee]

That's the username showing up on my screen that replied to my inquiry

[elbono]

elbono?

Yes?

It's an anagram my legal name, got tagged with it as a nickname decades ago by a dear friend who still screams it at the top of her lungs whenever she sees me.

[BrewinBrian44]

I find it interesting the Russian dudes much prefer the really small stuff, even for a 3" column. Kinda goes against the conversation in this thread from Dad300 and Odin about proper through put to avoid a flooding problem. Clearly people are finding success with the small SPP, but are sacrificing take-off rate for purity on a shorter column.

Seems like people that use other packing materials can get similar take off rates, so what becomes the point of the small SPP? Is it simply to have more purity in a height limited space?

[elbono]

Is it simply to have more purity in a height limited space?

Higher ABV was definitely my motivation. I have height issues in my stilling area so my packed column spool is 2" x 24". My first nonsacrifical run came out near azeo (mostly 95-96% by Amazon alcometer) with ss scrubbies so I'm not so sure I need the SPP now. I've got it so I'm going to try it anyway.

sacrificing take-off rate for purity

I haven't picked up on that, does take-off rate go down with SPP? When I try it I'll find out but knowing ahead of time would save some head scratching!

[sergiolis]

does take-off rate go down with SPP?

No! Take-off will go up!!

[bitter]

does take-off rate go down with SPP?

No! Take-off will go up!!

That's the way I ready everything with SPP and why I want to go there.. Need to get busy and make some.. Once I get some wire... I think ordering seams costly. I want thicker wire to ensure does not crush. Looks like Odin is using basically helicoils now in the istill. but not sure were to get those in bulk for a cheap price.

[BrewinBrian44]

Hey Bitter,

Even with my thinner wire stuff from Dr Gradus, I see no evidence of it crushing under its own weight. I’ve got 3” x 43” of height with the 5x5 stuff. You can rest easy there if you decide to just buy it.

[bitter]

Hey Bitter,

Even with my thinner wire stuff from Dr Gradus, I see no evidence of it crushing under its own weight. I’ve got 3” x 43” of height with the 5x5 stuff. You can rest easy there if you decide to just buy it.

Thanks

[elbono]

I have finally cleaned my SPP from Piotr, boiled in a pot of water on the stove a couple of times, skimmed minimal if any oil off the water, ran it through the dishwasher twice, did a sacrificial run in the column. Didn't seem very dirty at all (whew)!

I did my first real (1/2) run today, finish it tomorrow, and another in the next couple of days. Definitely accepts a lot more power than scrubbies. These runs are corn/angel yeast l expect are we 8%ish. I very happy so far.

My question is about the care and feeding of SPP. Rinse it out in the column with the garden hose like I've been doing with scrubbies? Empty the column and dry it? Something else?

Both scrubbies and SPP are stainless BTW.