Joints

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:41 pm

I plan to build my still soon and have been looking on this forum for insperation, i see a lot of interchangable pot/reflux stills with treaded joints at the boiler. How do you guys make a gas tite joint, i was thinkig about teflon on the treads but dident know if it was safe for a still. What do u guy use for gascets...cork, o-rings, ect. i was thinking food gread or aquerium safe silocone(rtv).

BW Redneck · Post by **BW Redneck** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:05 pm

While many on this forum strive to rid themselves of plastic in their stills, teflon tape on a threaded joint is not objectionable to some because of the low surface area that will actually be in contact with the vapor.

Most gaskets are needed in a still where the boiler connects to the column (clamped down, like the bowl connection on the valved reflux models). Members of this forum have had success with cork, as it is easily replaceable. Many, however, use the old moonshiner's trick of using flour paste, as it is nontoxic. Keep in mind that paste is a sealant, not a glue. Pasted joints need to be supported in some way. If you opt for the flour route, make the paste fairly thick, rather like sticky bread dough.

Ditch the silicone idea. The surface in contact with vapor is way too large, and any polymer nowadays has plasticizers in them, whose properties are not fully studied. Silicone especially.

dixiedrifter · Post by **dixiedrifter** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:53 pm

Triclover fittings are the shiznit when it comes to attaching a stillhead to a boiler. There is nothing better IMHO, period.

Now attaching stainless tubing to glass, well lets say I gots that covered.

My next still is gonna have a friedrich condensor on it.

Post by **Farley** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:18 pm

Hey Chico
Me too
Maybe you should register eh?
Ive been burning my brains out with rotten sodding plumbing
fittings, prices, and suppliers for weeks.
Material compatability.
Fermentation.
Yield
Intrinsic safety
Thermometry and power conversion.
I need a drink!
Go on, register.
?
Farley

cannon.co.tn · Post by **cannon.co.tn** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:27 pm

BW Redneck wrote: Ditch the silicone idea. The surface in contact with vapor is way too large, and any polymer nowadays has plasticizers in them, whose properties are not fully studied. Silicone especially.

hmmmm.... my still (which I bought from brewhaus) came with silicone hose for the distillate.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:27 pm

hmmmm.... my still (which I bought from brewhaus) came with silicone hose for the distillate.

just cause brewhaus took a shortcut doesn't mean you have to live with it.

Post by **manu de hanoi** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:59 am

I cant find "teflon tape" here and my boiler is too large for playing with flour paste.

I'd really like to use silicone sealant for the lid joint, I read on wiki and other places that silicone is chemical & heat resistant.

But then, this chinese silicone sealant, .... who knows what's inside.

Anyone knows a reliable brand of silicone or a convenient alternative ?

Post by **Tater** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:13 am

manu de hanoi wrote:I cant find "teflon tape" here and my boiler is too large for playing with flour paste.

I'd really like to use silicone sealant for the lid joint, I read on wiki and other places that silicone is chemical & heat resistant.

But then, this chinese silicone sealant, .... who knows what's inside.

Anyone knows a reliable brand of silicone or a convenient alternative ?

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3269

Post by **manu de hanoi** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:48 pm

http://homedistiller.org/equip/materials" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Jan Willem writes :

I made a still with a soup pan and a doughbowl, the seals I tried were;
1. rubber gasket - too stiff and smelly
2. silicone rubber tubing sliced open - well ok sort off, not perfect
3. silicone gasket or as the packing say's Form-A-Gasket no.6 I aplied it as a thin stripe and let it dry. Now i placed the dough bowl on it and fastened it (check my website I don't know exactly how to describe my contraption) Its been opened and closed now for about 15 times and still ok. And when its damaged easy repair or exchange with a new layer. Oh the manufacterer is Loctite and its called Blue Silicone RTV Catalog number 18869 and is also sold in europe

Gateswood Quarterhorses confirms this as suitable;

High-temp RTV is stable to 650° F. (intermittent) and resistant to most shop fluids. I assume this could include alcohol. It is also pressure resistant. Not recommended for contact with gasoline but I've had no problems with diesel fuel.

I would think that after it has fully cured it would be safe and effective for patching a still.

Rob van Leuven writes :

I have used a so-called aquarium grade silicon; after it has cured completely and the vessel (or fishtank) has been rinsed with water a couple of times, it does not release any chemicals. If it did, it would kill the fish immediately, because they are especially susceptable to chemical pollution (especially sea fish). The sealant/adhesive is resistant to temperatures up to 150 Celsius and inert to most solvents, acids etc...

If you want to make a removable gasket, you can squeeze a large blob of sealant between two panels of melamine faced chipboard which you have previously covered in dishwashing detergent (fairy liquid). Don't forget to separate the two panels with spacers which have the same thickness you want the gasket to have. After it has cured completely you can cut out the right shape with a sharp knife; put the gasket in boiling water for a while to remove any residues and you have a longlife silicon rubber gasket! Necessity is the mother of invention as the Irish say:)

Post by **Tater** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:41 pm

Thats them not us .

We dont recommend its use on this forum.

Post by **blanikdog** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:54 pm

Why,why, why does this topic always come up??? It must've been answered a thousand times.

If you want to use plastic, bloodywell use it, but, don't try to tell this forum that plastic/silicons etc are OK. Anyone with an ounce of brain matter should see that this forum - for a lot of very good reasons - advises against its use. It just has to be an ego thing, where 'I know better than you do' is the driving force.

As I said, use plastics if you wish, but don't blame this forum if you just happen to get crook.

blanikdog

Post by **manu de hanoi** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:35 am

of course plastic is not advised, i would use smthing else if I could.
I also read user experience in burning plastic boilers.

But for silicon joint ? Besides the obvious "plastic aint good" because it "could " release stuff, does anyone have a real life experience about silicone lid joint ?

showrguy · Post by **showrguy** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:45 am

yea, i do..
i used cork to start with... it got kinda shitty
then i changed it to RTV 408 CLEAR SILICONE, i ran a bead around the lip of the bowl, then put a piece of wax paper over it, then a flat sheet to flatten it out evenly, then let it cure for several days, then removed wax paper and trimmed off exess...
that's what i did... it works very well for "me".......
i know it's not recomended here, so don't tell anyone i'm using it...ok ??

Post by **Uncle Jesse** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:53 am

Why do things half-assed? You've come this far to make a quality product, why put plastic or silicon into your still? Have you checked the manufacturers specs to make sure these things are designed to come in contact with 192 proof alcohol without bleeding off any of their constituent chemicals? Is that plastic also able to handle the temperatures you still will generate? If not I'd recommend finding these facts out as your first step.

There are plastics designed for alcohol. My first beaker (hydrometer chimney) was a plastic unit I purchased from Otterson which was designed for 192 proof and never got any cracks in it as other plastics will. This was an expensive and precise piece of equipment and I've since gone to glass beakers. I know for a fact it wouldn't stand up to anything higher than room temperatures without melting.

I'm overworking my brain trying to think of one commercial still manufacturer who uses plastics in their vapor or liquor path.

Safety first is and always will be my motto for distillers. Using plastics in your still throws this rule out the window in favor of "it's my belief that this is safe." That attitude doesn't "make the cut" for my own personal distilling.

It's your life, your body, your health. But a word to the wise is sufficient.

Post by **HookLine** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:27 am

To quote The Chemist, from this thread:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=75

SOME plastics are okay to store LOW PROOF alcohol in (polycarbonates only, please--unless you really CAN afford PTFE)--NO PLASTIC is good for hot or high proof alcohol.

Don't do it. Don't argue. Or at least don't blame ME if there's ever a problem.

In the course of my work, I've seen many, many plastic bottles with high proof spirits in them. Sent to me by the distillers. I have yet to find one sample that didn't contain detectable amounts of plasticizer. How much di-iso-octyl phthalate do YOU want to eat?

He also later said that small amounts of PTFE (Teflon) are acceptable for high temp and/or high strength alcohol.

BW Redneck · Post by **BW Redneck** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:06 am

manu de hanoi wrote:I cant find "teflon tape" here and my boiler is too large for playing with flour paste.

I'd really like to use silicone sealant for the lid joint, I read on wiki and other places that silicone is chemical & heat resistant.

But then, this chinese silicone sealant, .... who knows what's inside.

Anyone knows a reliable brand of silicone or a convenient alternative ?

I haven't known of any boiler that paste couldn't be used upon. Now, why do you think that you couldn't use paste on your project? I need a few pics or at least a better reason than "too large".

Am I the only one who thinks that we may have another troll on the loose? Or a reincarnation of Bo Duke?

Post by **Tater** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:35 am

showrguy wrote:yea, i do..
i used cork to start with... it got kinda shitty
then i changed it to RTV 408 CLEAR SILICONE, i ran a bead around the lip of the bowl, then put a piece of wax paper over it, then a flat sheet to flatten it out evenly, then let it cure for several days, then removed wax paper and trimmed off exess...
that's what i did... it works very well for "me".......
i know it's not recomended here, so don't tell anyone i'm using it...ok ??

1 more for the I wouldnt drink his product list

Post by **manu de hanoi** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:25 am

BW Redneck wrote:
manu de hanoi wrote:I cant find "teflon tape" here and my boiler is too large for playing with flour paste.

I'd really like to use silicone sealant for the lid joint, I read on wiki and other places that silicone is chemical & heat resistant.

But then, this chinese silicone sealant, .... who knows what's inside.

Anyone knows a reliable brand of silicone or a convenient alternative ?
I haven't known of any boiler that paste couldn't be used upon. Now, why do you think that you couldn't use paste on your project? I need a few pics or at least a better reason than "too large".

Am I the only one who thinks that we may have another troll on the loose? Or a reincarnation of Bo Duke?

its 50 cm diameter lid, i already know the mess with a 20 cm lid, i dont want to go thru that again (u often get leaks during boiling that u must fix on the fly, trying to stick dripping flour paste upwards etc you often put more flour on yourself than on the lid

). could u tell me how i might be possibly trolling ?

showrguy · Post by **showrguy** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:34 am

sorry tater,
did'nt mean to rub anyone the wrong way, or dissapoint...
i'm not recomending it though/either...

BW Redneck · Post by **BW Redneck** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:59 am

The "more paste on yourself than on the lid" and the "suddenly spring a leak" problems are easily remedied by making a much thicker paste. (Hence, when goose talks about using paste, he sometimes refers to it as a "dough" or "biscuit". "Paste" is really a misnomer.)

Trolling accusations are thrown around on this forum when somebody does something that most members flat out disagree with. (I know of several incidents when somebody uses plastic, the most common trolling target, or argues over religion/politics. Check out some of the locked forums.)
I just get tired of the "can I use plastic" wars, which have been fought over and over again.

Will people please stop flaying dead horses already? The plastic and silicone horse has already been beaten to a puree.

Post by **manu de hanoi** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:12 am

BW Redneck wrote:The "more paste on yourself than on the lid" and the "suddenly spring a leak" problems are easily remedied by making a much thicker paste. (Hence, when goose talks about using paste, he sometimes refers to it as a "dough" or "biscuit". "Paste" is really a misnomer.)

Trolling accusations are thrown around on this forum when somebody does something that most members flat out disagree with. (I know of several incidents when somebody uses plastic, the most common trolling target, or argues over religion/politics. Check out some of the locked forums.)
I just get tired of the "can I use plastic" wars, which have been fought over and over again.

Will people please stop flaying dead horses already? The plastic and silicone horse has already been beaten to a puree.

Yes but i'm new on the forum (5 posts), so i cant tell. Moreover, why dont you just make a plastic thread sticky once for all dead horses?

The prob with paste is that it can also dry up (heat) and stop being airtight.

oh and btw, you have a political comment in your signature, which may be considered offensive by lotsa home distilling midwesteners here

)

Post by **Husker** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:13 am

BW Redneck wrote:Will people please stop flaying dead horses already? The plastic and silicone horse has already been beaten to a puree.

Awwww, come on, BWR. Whipping that horse when it is down is SOOOO easy to do <BG>

H.