So I built myself a thumper. One of those single hole designs with two unions on the lyne arm to adjust thumper height. I LOVE my new setup but I've been having a hell of a time with the two unions.
First try was the cleaning run (h2o/vinegar). Both unions leaked pretty bad at the threads. I flour pasted her up and went ahead and finished. I did this because it looked to me that the kegs were not level with each other and I assumed that's why I had the leak.
Next comes the sac run: levels the kegs up and very minor leaks were found. Again I had paste on hand and fixed the problem quickly.
Now im two more runs down the line and I'm getting frustrated. Unions leaked every run I've made at some point. And after this last run one if the unions was so tight I could not get it off!!! After struggling with it for about 30min I got mad and got my blow torch. damn thing is off now!!!
So its gonna be a month or two before I can rebuild and run again. And when I do I don't want to have the same problems again. You guys think I just got some crappy unions or do they tend to leak if over tightend?
I looked for just a second about 1" triclamps but didn't find much.
Any advise guys?
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
That's the link to what I have. The one at the liebig is fine no leaks at all. And before this build I used them with no problems either, but they were a different brand.
Moosemilk- PTFE was/is my next plan of attack. That's assuming I re solder the one union back on after prying it apart and it still leaks. I think its just poor quality unions. I only say that because I've had no problems in the past.
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
Does sound like poor quality!. I wouldn't think tape would do anything as the part that needs sealing is the union seat?, I think there's another thread about this, someone had a very similar problem if I remember correctly.
Here's to alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all life's problems.
"Homer J Simpson"
googe wrote:Does sound like poor quality!. I wouldn't think tape would do anything as the part that needs sealing is the union seat?, I think there's another thread about this, someone had a very similar problem if I remember correctly.
I do recall noticing that the way these unions seated were different than the last type I used. These have mating 45* angles and my old union that never leaked was more of a rounded mating area. I had forgot about that until now. But I would think that even with a bad seat some ptfe would kind of make a leak proof gasket at the threads right?
I might have to do a water run soon to do some testing... time is tight right now so it still may be a while before I can get to it.
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
moosemilk wrote:You using threaded unions? If so, try wrapping in some ptfe tape before you screw together. If not threaded, again, try some ptfe.
This worked great for me. I have to change the tape every few runs..but heck, its easy to do.
PTFE tape prevents "galling" of copper to copper joints. It also fills any surface anomalies on the cup and cone surfaces. So, wrap it around the threads and extend a little onto the cup and cone surfaces. Then tighten the union...but not too tight...just a short twist past hand tight.
ss
I have a hard time with cheap unions leaking too. Brewershardware.com has triclamps and ferrules down to 1/2". I have gotten a couple larger pieces from them. I will try the little ones soon.
bellybuster wrote:little bit of emery cloth to polish the mating surfaces usually helps
+1
I use grid 600 or 800 on the type that can be used with water. Place it on a even surface (what can i say..my kitchen countertop is perfect for now) ,pour some water on it and polish off any burrs.
Tip... : Move around in circular motions and turn the piece now and then, and it will be smooth as a baby's ass!
Same method can be use on triclamp ferrules, if they warp (not to bad) after welding...they will seal perfect afterwards.
Mine leak unless I wrap the copper to copper mating surface with ptfe tape. Hell they still leak sometimes then! I have to pull back the nut and carefully wrap the surface and then assemble carefully and then try to get it as even as possible.
I just ordered a bunch of these: http://r.ebay.com/LwVZyN and after I solder them up I am DONE with the shitty copper flare fittings!
Brutal wrote:Mine leak unless I wrap the copper to copper mating surface with ptfe tape. Hell they still leak sometimes then! I have to pull back the nut and carefully wrap the surface and then assemble carefully and then try to get it as even as possible.
I just ordered a bunch of these: http://r.ebay.com/LwVZyN and after I solder them up I am DONE with the shitty copper flare fittings!
Now THAT is what I was thinking!!! And at $10 that's a dollar cheaper than a union anyways!
Please please let me know how they work out for you!!!
Those almost seem to cheap to be true. Let me know how they fit and all that good stuff if you could be so kind!
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
DFitz wrote:You guys got me worried now. I have 3 unions designed into my still.
I dont think that leaking is the norm for these things. Lots of people here use them no problem. Hell I did until I got these new ones!I was just looking for a better way.
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
my unions leaked like crazy too. i took them out and just soldered the joints together with unions. the one spot where i needed a disconnect i added triclamps. leaks are no good
Brutal wrote:Mine leak unless I wrap the copper to copper mating surface with ptfe tape. Hell they still leak sometimes then! I have to pull back the nut and carefully wrap the surface and then assemble carefully and then try to get it as even as possible.
I just ordered a bunch of these: http://r.ebay.com/LwVZyN and after I solder them up I am DONE with the shitty copper flare fittings!
Now THAT is what I was thinking!!! And at $10 that's a dollar cheaper than a union anyways!
Please please let me know how they work out for you!!!
Those almost seem to cheap to be true. Let me know how they fit and all that good stuff if you could be so kind!
+1 Brutal..
I use them too...they come with a PTFE gasket. No problems and i tested the material (as i always do), they are genuine stainless steel.
This supplier (i have no economical interests and don't prefer him over others) have delivered some of my other stuff too, NPT couplings, threaded pipe etc..
StillLearning1 wrote:
I dont think that leaking is the norm for these things. Lots of people here use them no problem. Hell I did until I got these new ones!I was just looking for a better way.
I have a 10" ferrule at the base of my whiskey head then I'm coming off the top of the whiskey head with 2" to the column. I think it will probably look much neater using ferrules rather than unions. I just thought the unions would be a little more durable. Every sanitary clamp will eventually be brass plated so while being more inexpensive the cost in the end will be close to the same. I'll give it more thought.
On my stills I use a bunch of stainless unions. 1" and 2" I found at first they leaked a little bit. To solve that, I wiped I small amount of pipe dope on the inside edge. Works like a champ. This is also what I do on all my gas line unions and water line unions and some of those have pressure up to 160 psi. Those unions are black steel and brass, but the fix is the same. This was taught to me by the man I did my apprenticeship under. I also always wipe some pipe dope on the inside of the flare, every time I use a flare fitting. No leaks.
I'm %100 sure pipe dope is not a material we should advocate the use of anywhere on or in a still.
Pipe thread tape made of PTFE however, is a cheap and safe solution. My unions require a little tape now that they have been assembled and disassembled dozens of times. It's no biggy. I will use 3/4" triclamps with future build instead of unions, to avoid this issue.
coastershiner wrote:On my stills I use a bunch of stainless unions. 1" and 2" I found at first they leaked a little bit. To solve that, I wiped I small amount of pipe dope on the inside edge. Works like a champ. This is also what I do on all my gas line unions and water line unions and some of those have pressure up to 160 psi. Those unions are black steel and brass, but the fix is the same. This was taught to me by the man I did my apprenticeship under. I also always wipe some pipe dope on the inside of the flare, every time I use a flare fitting. No leaks.
I also use pipe dope on my natural gas connections. but never on my potable water connections and absolutely never ever on my distillate connections.
Too many times people have problems with union connections. Most of the problems are caused by poor procedure, with some being created by poor product. The union should be fitted so you could torque the retaining ring almost completely by hand. If the joint is offset even a little and you try to torque it to come together many times you will have a problem. Checking mating services and cleaning up with wet emory mesh is advisable. Also tighten as needed over torquing can cause more problems than under torquing.
Brutal wrote:Mine leak unless I wrap the copper to copper mating surface with ptfe tape. Hell they still leak sometimes then! I have to pull back the nut and carefully wrap the surface and then assemble carefully and then try to get it as even as possible.
I just ordered a bunch of these: http://r.ebay.com/LwVZyN and after I solder them up I am DONE with the shitty copper flare fittings!
Brutal, the ferrules being 1" OD, do you think they will fit well with 1" type L copper pipe?
Every new member should read this before doing anything else:
S-Cackalacky...i just compared some 1" L type pipe the outside diameter would be 1,125 " or 28,57 mm. Inside is 1,055" or 26,79 mm.
The actual ferrule is 25 mm, that is the outside diameter..and just short of a inch (1"= 25,4 mm).
It's a weld ferrule, designed to be welded with a (I) seem and backinggas on a Ø25 pipe.
Brutal wrote:I just ordered a bunch of these: http://r.ebay.com/LwVZyN and after I solder them up I am DONE with the shitty copper flare fittings!
+1
I'm putting together a two keg system and I got a bunch of these to keep things modular.
A 3/4" copper pipe fits inside the ferrule and solders up nice with silver solder.
I also really like the idea of the 90 degree offset when running pipe between kegs that allows a much more forgiving fit if kegs are at different levels.
Last edited by MichiganCornhusker on Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me...
Brutal wrote:Mine leak unless I wrap the copper to copper mating surface with ptfe tape. Hell they still leak sometimes then! I have to pull back the nut and carefully wrap the surface and then assemble carefully and then try to get it as even as possible.
I just ordered a bunch of these: http://r.ebay.com/LwVZyN and after I solder them up I am DONE with the shitty copper flare fittings!
Brutal, the ferrules being 1" OD, do you think they will fit well with 1" type L copper pipe?
Fingers crossed??
The way Dane says it sounds bad. According to the chart here http://www.petersenproducts.com/Specifi ... opper.aspx the ID of type L is 1.025", and Google says that equals 26.035mm. Seems like a big gap to fill with solder, especially considering the stainless.. I have a feeling they will fit better than that though. What the heck else would they be made for?
Ok a little more searching and I found this chart http://www.aandlvalve.com/chart-steelpipe.htm According to Google 25mm equals 0.984252". The only way to get close to that number on that chart is to use schedule 80 1" ss pipe. Way too thick. So yea. I will measure them when they get here an let y'all know.
Dane, you say you have these exact fitting and are using them right? What kind of pipe did you use with them?
MichiganCornhusker wrote:Yes, 3/4!! Plenty big for what I'm doing and much cheaper than the 1".
I've also been using street 90's right into the ferrule to keep things clean.
Yup, I have street el's too. Surprised everyone here doesn't use them.
You are right about 3/4" being large enough. I just already built all my stuff in 1" except the steam injector. It's 3/4" adapted up to 1". I'm sure I can adapt it. Maybe it's an opportunity to redo a couple things.
damn thing is off now!!!
....I might try it anyways....
