Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

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Tabucowboy
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Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Tabucowboy »

I found this great way to notify me product is coming out of my condenser.

I put this in a 16oz canning jar and it goes off when product starts to come out of my condenser, it sounds an alarm.
PXL_20210314_151417904.jpg
CM Reflux Still -- Copper mesh 16" ,column 31" tall, dia. 2",temp at boiler,top of column, power - PAC w5500w Element
Pot Still -- Copper mesh 16",column, 23" tall dia. 2", temp at boiler, power - PAC w5500w Element
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zed255
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by zed255 »

Are you suggesting you aren't in attendance when your still is on? I'm very aware and actively managing my still while it comes on-line and begins producing distillate, I can't imagine missing the first drips.
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Durhommer
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Durhommer »

I'm usually there for the first drips last time I wasn't I had a puking nightmare so I always watch my still start then I'll go pee or get coffee from upstairs

I think we all should watch our equipment
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Bushman »

Not sure how to respond to this post. I like all indicators that give me information but none of them should replace the distillers presents during operation.
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Tabucowboy »

If this is in violation of any Board rules, Please pull this and I will have no issue.
But I personally believe that none of you that have been distilling for a long time sit there and stare at your still the entire time it is on.

I am in my workshop which is attached to my distilling room in my basement. My still takes 45-75 min to start producing.
And this is only for my stripping runs. And my still is run on element, not fire.
My workshop is not clean so I do not want to keep my distilling in there, but my distilling room is sanitary.
This device alerts me when the first few drops are coming out so I can collect the Foreshots and add them to my burning fuel.
I then move my condenser to empty into a 5 gal carboy sitting in a wide 5 gal barrel and add a collection jar every 15min till the ABV is down to 25%
then I am collecting in jars every 5 min until the ABV hits 15%, that is when I stop.
But I also have a Cleveland Steamer Low Water Cut Off in my boiler, Pressure Relief Valve and a Vacuum Relief Valve.
And I will continue to add safety features to my still.
For my spirit runs I am always in the room and collect every 200ml into a separate jar.
CM Reflux Still -- Copper mesh 16" ,column 31" tall, dia. 2",temp at boiler,top of column, power - PAC w5500w Element
Pot Still -- Copper mesh 16",column, 23" tall dia. 2", temp at boiler, power - PAC w5500w Element
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zed255
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by zed255 »

It is just considered good practise to be attentive and in immediate control of a running still. It is one of the reasons discussion of automation is actively curtailed, the idea promotes unattended operation.

I'm never further than the next room, and even then can easily see my rig. I can reach my still in a few steps any time it is on, though I'm almost always sitting at the table next to it. My wife is very accommodating and ensures I have what I need. She will stand in if I need to go take care of business :wink: , she doesn't do the stilling but knows how to turn it off if something goes wrong in my absence.

I have nothing against safety features so long as their presence doesn't breed complacency. Some will develop bad habits relying on a feature that could itself fail.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Tabucowboy wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:54 am Some will develop bad habits relying on a feature that could itself fail.
Thats my problem with the idea.....some fool will use it on a gas fired still , then the gadget will fail.......next thing a still fire erupts or worse.
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by nerdybrewer »

This is the reason for the strong push here to attend your equipment.
If you must leave it unattended shut it down.
If you depend on a device and it fails what's the worst that could happen?

I have personally had a setup that I thought was fool proof.
This was a heating system in a 100 gallon all grain mash.
I had it set to turn on and off with temperature limits.
I left it over night and when I went to look at it in the morning I could see clouds of smoke exiting my shed.
I had a failure of imagination.
What I didn't account for was that the grains would rise to the top and carry the heater with them and then all the moisture would dry out and then the heater would keep going because the temperature sensor was 2 feet below in the liquid.
This resulted in a very big batch of all grain mash getting scorched.
Fortunately it didn't catch fire, that would have been even worse.

This is to say, in any automated system we must make certain assumptions.
We also must try and imagine all the things that could happen and determine which are more likely to happen and try to account for them in the design.
Then we test, see what goes wrong, reassess and fix design issues and test some more.
All of this before actually putting things at risk.

So what things could go "not according to plan"?
What happens if something goes wrong while you're not watching.
The device has to get wet to work, so what happens if some critter like a bird or a ferret (or whatever) knocks your jar out of the stream and the product pours on the floor while you're not there?
Just an example of the kinds of things you have to think about in order to design automation.
Most of us don't have the time or resources to make fool proof systems, because they're always coming up with better fools!
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Birrofilo »

Tabucowboy wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:17 am I found this great way to notify me product is coming out of my condenser.

I put this in a 16oz canning jar and it goes off when product starts to come out of my condenser, it sounds an alarm.

PXL_20210314_151417904.jpg
This is very interesting information.

It must be rephrased as: "I found this great way to wake me up when product is coming out of my condenser in case I accidentally happen to have fallen asleep watching the parrot while nothing happens".

This complies with the forum rules, and it also gives a useful information.
Last edited by Birrofilo on Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by dunluce »

Tabucowboy wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:54 am If this is in violation of any Board rules, Please pull this and I will have no issue.
But I personally believe that none of you that have been distilling for a long time sit there and stare at your still the entire time it is on.
I watch my still as closely as I watch anything I am cooking. Take that any way that you may.
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by silverbean »

Yeah Nah, if you need something to alert you product is coming out its too late. Your signature line suggests you monitor temperature at several places on your still and that will tell you when product is about to start unless you are not in the room or asleep. I really don't see a need for it.
Is it a good idea to have a 9 volt battery pushing current through high ABV foreshots?
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Tabucowboy »

dunluce wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:00 pm
Tabucowboy wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:54 am If this is in violation of any Board rules, Please pull this and I will have no issue.
But I personally believe that none of you that have been distilling for a long time sit there and stare at your still the entire time it is on.
I watch my still as closely as I watch anything I am cooking. Take that any way that you may.
Dunluce,

I am a cook and fully agree. I am around my still way more than I am at times I am smoking with my smoker.
And I agree this is not a turn on and forget hobby.

Silver & Nerdy,
As for relying on temperature, I have had my thermometer state the temp was 165F (74c) and product starts coming out at 167F (75C). That is when I knew I needed to re-test my thermometers, four runs after my last tests.
That is the main reason I got the sensor because I understand things fail.

I will agree my wording was vague, and I can see how it sounds like I walk away.
You do not want to be farther away from a running still, where you can not be right there in 15-20 sec.

Cowboy
CM Reflux Still -- Copper mesh 16" ,column 31" tall, dia. 2",temp at boiler,top of column, power - PAC w5500w Element
Pot Still -- Copper mesh 16",column, 23" tall dia. 2", temp at boiler, power - PAC w5500w Element
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by dunluce »

Tabucowboy wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:36 am Dunluce,

I am a cook and fully agree. I am around my still way more than I am at times I am smoking with my smoker.
And I agree this is not a turn on and forget hobby.......
Tabucowboy....PM sent. :mrgreen:
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NZChris
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by NZChris »

It isn't going to be any help if the cooling water isn't running for some reason that you never thought could happen. My wife came home and parked the truck on the Liebig outlet hose. I never saw that one coming :(

It won't tell you when enough foreshot is in the first jar.
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Yummyrum »

NZChris wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:00 pm My wife came home and parked the truck on the Liebig outlet hose. I never saw that one coming
No , but I bet you was there when the steam come out the liebig and you saved the place . :thumbup:
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by NZChris »

The bulging hose and a squirt from a join were the giveaway.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Strange things happen when you least expect them .....its happened to me more than once when running a still........things that you would never think would happen suddenly do .
Rule No1 in my book is never leave the still to its own devices.
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by Tabucowboy »

Thank you all for the comments. They have made me think of other things I should also be setting up fail-safes for.
NZChris wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:00 pm It isn't going to be any help if the cooling water isn't running for some reason that you never thought could happen. My wife came home and parked the truck on the Liebig outlet hose. I never saw that one coming :(
I will be working on a way to add the following fail-safe.
Flow Sensor Element Power Cut-off by adding a .3L/min Flow Sensor, hooked up to a Zero Switching SSR Relay.

That will kill the power to my element if their is no water flow out my cooling water return hose. So I won't even be able to turn it on without the condenser having water flow of at least .3L/min.

Cowboy
CM Reflux Still -- Copper mesh 16" ,column 31" tall, dia. 2",temp at boiler,top of column, power - PAC w5500w Element
Pot Still -- Copper mesh 16",column, 23" tall dia. 2", temp at boiler, power - PAC w5500w Element
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Re: Great way to alert me product coming out of condenser.

Post by NZChris »

I use a latched relay to switch the element, so it is push button start/stop. If anything unlatches the relay, the power stays off until the parameters are ok and the start button is pushed. By having a temperature controller monitoring the condensate temperature, the still will get shut down by any problem that lets the condensate go over the setpoint.
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