advice asked for my press

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Fredistiller
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advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

Hi,

I'm currently working on my SS press. I'll use it for elderberries, grapes and apples. Any advices from experienced people would be much appreciated.
For apples I read that it's better to make "cakes" and and using slats instead of using a basket That's why, in addition to win storage space, I make a bolted system for the vertical pipes.

Here are some specs:
Rectangle pipe of 50mm x 50mm x 2mm.
The basket (green) will be a reinforced stainless steel perforated sheet. I'll use a bag inside.

My questions are:
I hesitate which bottle jack (yellow and fully extended on the drawing) I should buy: 5-8-10 Tons? Does a more powerful jack works faster?
I would like to keep the dimensions as they are for storage versus volume purposes. But I'm then wondering how smaller the basket has to be compared to the tray. Does the juice spit out of the basket? If yes how much space is needed not to spill on the floor? Now I have 1 cm left and right between the basket and the tray.


press color.jpg
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Boozewaves
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Boozewaves »

I have been thinking of making a press for apples .

here are 2 good threads I looked at , you could ask your questions there
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 50&t=62539
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=51537

and also "whizbang cider press" video on youtube has some useful info in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTxv6M9IuXY

one day i'll get round to trying out copper beating like you described in your thread :thumbup:
Become a distiller : start here viewtopic.php?t=52975
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Fredistiller
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

Thanks for the YouTube link!
I read the two posts you mentioned but couldn't find answers to my questions. I didn't want to hijack the posts by talking about my own project...

I hope you'll find the time to beat some copper sheet.😇
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Bushman »

I use a 20 ton press from Harbor Freight that Boozewave has as his second link. Works great but is heavy so I am also thinking of making a tabletop press that is more portable when I transport it to other people orchards. My new grinder is only 22 lbs and attaches to a table. My only concern is load and I would have to have something about as strong as a picnic table or make something that is modular and easy to put together.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by stillanoob »

Fred, I don't think a stronger jack will work faster. As I press (with an old school hand screw press) I find pausing put less stress on the equipment. When you pause for a few seconds it allows the fruit to break down and the juice to drain and then it is easier to press some more. As I get closer to the bottom I find that I get to diminishing returns. Speed is important to me when pressing quantities of fruit. I am less interested in getting every drop from the fruit than I am processing more batches in the same time. In may not get quite as much per batch but it takes much less time and so overall my throughput increases. And there are only so many hours in a day and so many days a year that I can spend processing fruit. And there are some like the French that believe you shouldn't press too hard, I think Calvados has some limit as to how hard you are allowed to press. I think, my memory can be terrible.

As to spitting, the only fruit I find that spits is pears. Pears are kind of mealy and break down into finer particles than apple. It tends to plug the bag and then more pressure makes it spit. Patience is the key there, as well as cleaning the bag in-between batches. I never get the pear pomace as dry as apple pomace. 1cm might be a little close, I have much wider margins but I have never really watched to see if it actually needs it. I will be pressing some apples on Friday so I will take a good look.
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Fredistiller
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

stillanoob wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:25 pm Fred, I don't think a stronger jack will work faster. As I press (with an old school hand screw press) I find pausing put less stress on the equipment. When you pause for a few seconds it allows the fruit to break down and the juice to drain and then it is easier to press some more. As I get closer to the bottom I find that I get to diminishing returns. Speed is important to me when pressing quantities of fruit. I am less interested in getting every drop from the fruit than I am processing more batches in the same time. In may not get quite as much per batch but it takes much less time and so overall my throughput increases. And there are only so many hours in a day and so many days a year that I can spend processing fruit. And there are some like the French that believe you shouldn't press too hard, I think Calvados has some limit as to how hard you are allowed to press. I think, my memory can be terrible.

As to spitting, the only fruit I find that spits is pears. Pears are kind of mealy and break down into finer particles than apple. It tends to plug the bag and then more pressure makes it spit. Patience is the key there, as well as cleaning the bag in-between batches. I never get the pear pomace as dry as apple pomace. 1cm might be a little close, I have much wider margins but I have never really watched to see if it actually needs it. I will be pressing some apples on Friday so I will take a good look.
Thanks, I'm curious to ear how it went yesterday! Me too I try to be as efficient as possible and so speed is paramount. So much things I want to do, so little free time.

About pressing too hard, I visited a (farm)distillery in Calvados last year. The lady who went with us for the tour was proud to show their new belt press, she was happy that this one squeezed all the juice out of the pomace, turning it into "something like cardboard". But I saw a video from a winery (in Bordeau?) and they say that they don't press the grapes that hard in order to keep quality. I'm no specialist, just saying what I've heard...
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by NZChris »

You can make two grades from one pressing if you want, using the Free Run for one style of wine or brandy, and the pressed for another. Plus, you can make Grappa from the pressings.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

NZChris wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:16 am You can make two grades from one pressing if you want, using the Free Run for one style of wine or brandy, and the pressed for another.
Could you explain a bit more? What do you mean by Free Run?
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by stillanoob »

When pressing yesterday I was paying attention to see how much room is really needed for clearance around the tub. I think 1cm is pretty tight but you will be ok. You'll just have to try it and see. It is the first gush as you press, large quantities of juice come out.

I'm no expert either! And have no idea how much difference pressure makes on the product. Since mine is a hand screw press and can't really press too hard anyway I have no way of finding out if the really hard pressed stuff tastes different. This article references using a membrane press :

"However, most calvados producers prefer membrane presses used for winemaking, which ensures slow and uniform juice extraction with the skin at low pressure."

https://bespokeunit.com/spirits/calvados/making/

Not that one article on the internet means much! Since you will be using a hydraulic jack you can press super hard and taste the difference and see what you think. In some ways I think pressing hard might be a good thing as perhaps it will extract more of the flavor near the skin. In making cider I have always found that the flavors that persist most are those near the skin.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Demy »

This is my old video, maybe it could help. There are many ways to build it. Perhaps your base is a bit small but if you don't push too fast it will be fine.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

stillanoob wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:54 am When pressing yesterday I was paying attention to see how much room is really needed for clearance around the tub. I think 1cm is pretty tight but you will be ok. You'll just have to try it and see. It is the first gush as you press, large quantities of juice come out.

I'm no expert either! And have no idea how much difference pressure makes on the product. Since mine is a hand screw press and can't really press too hard anyway I have no way of finding out if the really hard pressed stuff tastes different. This article references using a membrane press :

"However, most calvados producers prefer membrane presses used for winemaking, which ensures slow and uniform juice extraction with the skin at low pressure."

https://bespokeunit.com/spirits/calvados/making/

Not that one article on the internet means much! Since you will be using a hydraulic jack you can press super hard and taste the difference and see what you think. In some ways I think pressing hard might be a good thing as perhaps it will extract more of the flavor near the skin. In making cider I have always found that the flavors that persist most are those near the skin.
Thanks for your reply!!!
I'll buy a strong jack. If I see that to much pressure isn't a good thing I still can stop pressing. The other way around isn't possible.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

Demy wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:16 am This is my old video, maybe it could help. There are many ways to build it. Perhaps your base is a bit small but if you don't push too fast it will be fine.
Thanks! Nice little press!!
Your upper bar looks like a IPE, can you tell me how broad it is (100-120-140?) And how long? How many tons can your jack press?
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by NZChris »

Fredistiller wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:03 am
NZChris wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:16 am You can make two grades from one pressing if you want, using the Free Run for one style of wine or brandy, and the pressed for another.
Could you explain a bit more? What do you mean by Free Run?
It's the juice you get without pressing. It has less influence from the skins. It would only make a lot of difference with freshly crushed grapes.

The table grapes that came with this property don't make nice red wine, but the free run from them makes an ok sparkling Rosé. I usually make them into brandy, fermenting on the skins and pressing on stilling day.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

NZChris wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:39 pm
Fredistiller wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:03 am
NZChris wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:16 am You can make two grades from one pressing if you want, using the Free Run for one style of wine or brandy, and the pressed for another.
Could you explain a bit more? What do you mean by Free Run?
It's the juice you get without pressing. It has less influence from the skins. It would only make a lot of difference with freshly crushed grapes.

The table grapes that came with this property don't make nice red wine, but the free run from them makes an ok sparkling Rosé. I usually make them into brandy, fermenting on the skins and pressing on stilling day.
Thanks for these very interesting informations.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Danespirit »

For what it's worth..I have something similar to Demy's build.
I made a solid base out of wood, though which gives it stability so it doesn't tip easily.
My bottle jack is just 2,5 T but there is plenty of power to press apples even if they are not super ripe.
The I-beam across is 120X60X6 mm and solid as a rock.
Ahh....it makes me dream of Calvados.... :P
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

Danespirit wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:07 am For what it's worth..I have something similar to Demy's build.
I made a solid base out of wood, though which gives it stability so it doesn't tip easily.
My bottle jack is just 2,5 T but there is plenty of power to press apples even if they are not super ripe.
The I-beam across is 120X60X6 mm and solid as a rock.
Ahh....it makes me dream of Calvados.... :P
I would like to know the diameter of your pressing plate and the lengthof the I-beam please. So I can compare with my design.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Demy »

Fredistiller wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:14 am
Demy wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:16 am This is my old video, maybe it could help. There are many ways to build it. Perhaps your base is a bit small but if you don't push too fast it will be fine.
Thanks! Nice little press!!
Your upper bar looks like a IPE, can you tell me how broad it is (100-120-140?) And how long? How many tons can your jack press?
The upper bar is a piece of beam, it is right; It is about 30cm long, 10cm height, the flap against which it pushes the crick of about 5cm. The crick in the video was oversized and a little cumbersome (but the structure react equally the effort) then I replaced it with an identical 10T. I built it with what I had at home.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Danespirit »

Fredistiller wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:21 am
Danespirit wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:07 am For what it's worth..I have something similar to Demy's build.
I made a solid base out of wood, though which gives it stability so it doesn't tip easily.
My bottle jack is just 2,5 T but there is plenty of power to press apples even if they are not super ripe.
The I-beam across is 120X60X6 mm and solid as a rock.
Ahh....it makes me dream of Calvados.... :P
I would like to know the diameter of your pressing plate and the lengthof the I-beam please. So I can compare with my design.
That would be 400 mm for the 120X60X6 I-beam and 300 mm for the press plate.
The press plate is just some pieces of wood bolted on stainless steel U-profiles I had laying around.
It's made like a grid # (everything 90 degrees of course).
Edit: The vertical pieces are 40X40X3 square pipe. As the force vector is almost a straight pull they are more than adequate for my little bottle jack.
In fact, I could double the power on it and they wouldn't give in...my press plate would though.
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Re: advice asked for my press

Post by Fredistiller »

Thanks for your replies Demy and Danespirit ! :thumbup:
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