still only runs at 160° F

[crazy4supras]

Hi, yes im new here and new to distilling
lets start with my still it is a 7 gallon reflux still ( home made ) 6in round and 4ft tall column
5ft internal coil all copper im running it on a natural gas burner ( yes I know danger danger )
2ft of the column is packed with copper wire mesh I have ran vinegar water , beer, and water all seem to run good
problem is I went for my first "real" sugar wash run today wash was at 10% alcohol
Oh yea temperature guage is towards top of column just below coil
on my cleaning runs I had no problems getting the temp up to 170-190°f BUT this time it started producing around 150° and I was only able to get it up to 162°f I ran it that way was getting a couple drips of spirits a second around a quart an hour
I cut out 300ml then collected 3 quarts of 187 proof and then another quart that was 140 proof then the temperature raised to 180 wich I assumed would be the tails I stopped collecting at that point
the low temperature bothers me from the sound of the marbles in my pot I had a pretty good boil going
question is did I make 3 quarts of drinkable spirits or 3 quarts of " lantern" fluid
sorry if this has already been covered I searched but couldn't find anything close to it I have learned almost everything I can from just reading this forum even building the still came from a mix of ideas you guy's have thrown out there
id like to thank everyone for the over load of information that's available to the noobs
im a drinker just dont want to posion my family or myself

[jedneck]

First I will welcome you. Now on to the problem. Have you checked that your thermometer is accurate. Put in pan of boiling water to test should be 212 if at sea level. The higher you are the lower it will boil. And you column is a lot bigger( to big) than it needs to be for a 7 gallon boiler. My 3 inch single plate flute was more than a 5 gallon boiler could feed.

[MoonBreath]

Welcome to HD!
I would have to see pictures to make a precise assessment ..Sounds like you had a fairly complete run to me ..Assuming you tossed foreshots, your likker is probably ok ...Bring it down to taste with your alcohol meter ..Thermometer read lower in reflux mode ..Higher in potstill (cleaning) mode ..
Without more info, that would be all I can speculate..You may should've asked about the build, before asking about the finished product. Good luck ..Read!

[crazy4supras]

Thank you for the welcome
I need to correct the column width is 5 in probably still too big
I have checked the thermometer in the same way you suggested
I guess the real question is can you actually make just 3 quarts of methanol if the temperature stays at the right temp or is there just a minimal amout of methanol in the wash that will be distilled off
sorry if anything is miss spelled or incorrectly typed I only have a tablet to work with here

[MoonBreath]

Column way to big ..Start readn and understand why 2" is preferred.

[crazy4supras]

Thanks for all the input I have and plan on to contunue reading everything I can and even reread everything again I would give you pictures if I could figure out how to on here

[MoonBreath]

Post reply ..Bottom left push upload attachment ..You may have to crop to 800×800 pix or less ..
Submit post .

[crazy4supras]

I suppose making a smaller column wouldn't be to hard

[HDNB]

you cant make 3 quarts of methanol just cause the column is big. you would have to put 3 quarts in the bottom to get 3 quart out the top.
i can see why you can't get it to read much hotter, that much copper will transfer heat to air like crazy. a column that big could be on 700 gal pot.
you could try insulating the whole thing, but a 7 gal boiler would hardly hold enough to get the inside of that monster wet.
maybe downsizing to a 2"...maybe 3" is in order.
either that or get a fuel permit and a monster boiler!
nice work BTW, the boiler looks very well made!

[crazy4supras]

Ok thanks again for the quick advice guys looks like I'll try and work that column down, been looking and reading might even recycle it and start over since the copper on it is so thick and very hard to work with
it wasnt 3 quarts of methanol really just hypothetically if I cooked my wash at a steady 149° would I get a gallon of methanol or would the methanol cook out to lets say a quart ? Leaving the still to just stop dripping. .. and yes I will keep reading just everyone says what temperature your suppose to cook at but I haven't seen any where what happens if you cook at a steady low or high temp

[MoonBreath]

Do not worry about temperature! Keep adjusted to pencil tip stream .

[metalsmith]

My solution; get rid of the thermometer. Low and slow. Pencil lead stream.

[HDNB]

and again, no methanol in, no methanol out.

does not matter how hard you try, or what the temperature is...if there is no methanol in the wash you cannot distill it out.


more research will ease your mind.

[HDNB]

a cut and paste from interwebbies:
Distillate purity is always directly related to the contents of the mash. A chemical analysis of the typical distillate (excluding water and ethyl alcohol) that is produced when a batch of molasses based beer breaks down as follows:

Organic acids 0.152 %
Esters 0.071
Aldehydes 0.015
Furfurol 0.00019
Higher Alcohols 0.412
Nitrogenous Substances 0.0006
Notice that the total impurities (excluding water) typically amount to less than one percent, there is no methanol present, and there are no toxic amounts of any component.

there are further lab resul;ts herein....keep readin....

[shadylane]

crazy4supras
From your pic's I'd say your serious about this hobby.
You already knew that.
Studying this forum and practice will get you what is needed.

[crazy4supras]

and again, no methanol in, no methanol out.

does not matter how hard you try, or what the temperature is...if there is no methanol in the wash you cannot distill it out.


more research will ease your mind.

I get it ... think I'm just second guessing myself and your all right should toss the thermometer I had a guy show me how to work a 10 gallon Georgia ridge copper still dont think he even looked at the thermometer. .... and after some more reading I am definitely reworking the column down to at least 3in thanks again everyone for your input

[HDNB]

the key to a good product is a good wash. a great product comes from a great mash. the tried and true are just that. lots of guys have great success with UJSSM or sweetfeed before moving on to AG mashes.
follow the instructions, read them a few time so you get the whole picture and it will keep you from second guessing. by the time you run a second gen UJSSM, you will be pretty comfortable with the process, having done a couple strippers and a spirit run, you'll be off to the races.

the new distillers lounge has lots of great info and the parent site's calculators really helped me when i started, double checking the facts in the NDLounge.
one thing you definitely want to read a few times is kiwistiller's novices guide to cuts. without good cuts, you will not get the quality product you are looking for.

good luck, don't forget to post some photos of the new improved column! your building skills are to be envied! lots of photos and descriptions can help the next guy too...if there is anything that needs tweeking the guys here will catch it and let you know what you want to do. post here or in "my first" or in "build" section (and leave a link here if you start a new thread, i'd like to see what you come up with!)

[RevSpaminator]

The only use I have for a thermometer with a pot still is when I'm waiting for things to warm up. I can see rapid change in vapor temp and I know that it is ready to start dripping. But the only reason it was put there is for tuning vapor temp when running in reflux mode.

[Bob Loblaw]

You guys are telling him not to use a thermometer on a pot still, but that looks like a reflux still of I am not sure what design. Four feet of 3" tubing with what looks like a condensor on top - but what's the takeoff?

I have a couple of questions
1) what is the design? Is it a boka, a VM, or something else?
2) how are you running it? There appears to be no valve to control the thing to put it into reflux. Are you just running as a pot still?
3) is your thermometer shielded/hooded? If you're trying to reflux, condensate is going to drip back onto it and you're going to get a low temp reading

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

Looks like a boka with no take off valve. Is it packed? If you are running it as a reflux then disregard all info about losing the thermometer as that doesn't apply to you.

[crazy4supras]

You guys are telling him not to use a thermometer on a pot still, but that looks like a reflux still of I am not sure what design. Four feet of 3" tubing with what looks like a condensor on top - but what's the takeoff?

I have a couple of questions
1) what is the design? Is it a boka, a VM, or something else?
2) how are you running it? There appears to be no valve to control the thing to put it into reflux. Are you just running as a pot still?
3) is your thermometer shielded/hooded? If you're trying to reflux, condensate is going to drip back onto it and you're going to get a low temp reading

Can you imagine the amount of packing i have purchased for that 5in hole lol 200ft and only packed it half way up ..... dont matter tho already in the process of taking it apart to get it as close to 2in as possible
I guess it would be like a boka it is 5in tube with 5ft coil at top with a spoon under coil
I'm running it as a reflux still it seamed to actually reflux first quart was 95% then next was 93% going slowly down from there to 70% then it dropped down to 35% im not experienced enough to tell you what was heads or hearts yet... im trying not to cover anything thats been covered ,when i went to dilute it turned cloudy i have read the other post about it so im assuming i went into the tail
Plan is to rebuild it like it was just smaller diameter

[Bob Loblaw]

When you rebuild it, you should take a look at some of the more tried and true designs - so that you can really manage the still. With a reflux still, you will need the thermometer - but you also need a valved takeoff so you can manage the vapor temp. With that tiny takeoff tube, you probably got some reflux - but it would be tough to put the column into equilibrium if you can't close off the takeoff.

[crazy4supras]

Ok tried and true , equilibrium, take off valve .... time to read
thanks again guys great info
having an off valve makes me feel like pressure build up somewhere but let me read first

[Bob Loblaw]

Ok tried and true , equilibrium, take off valve .... time to read
thanks again guys great info
having an off valve makes me feel like pressure build up somewhere but let me read first

Nope. Your column is still open at top above the condensor. No pressure buildup at all. If you condensor isn't up to the task, the vapor escapes at the top

[crazy4supras]

Nope. Your column is still open at top above the condesor. No pressure buildup at all. If you condensor isn't up to the task, the vapor escapes at the top[/quote]


Ooh ok don't think anyone could of explained any better thanks

[crazy4supras]

Ok after careful consideration i ditched the reflux ok maybe not completely ditched lets say put it on the back burner for now and had a local still builder build me a pot still head for my boiler he even made a thumper i can use or not use if i want , had my first very successful run with it last night , i would highly recommend any newb to collect in numbered pint jars as i can now tell the difference between heads hearts and tails after my first run ...... i have read EVERYTHING in this forum and from the parent site at least twice now very very helpful info here thanks to everyone one for the knowledge you have shared