Never a Crash- I Credit Oyster Shells

[fizzix]

I just read another thread about 2 pH stalls and 1 recovery.

I always have 3 ferments going -always- and have for about 8~9 months.
Early on this forum taught me about crushed oyster shell pH buffering, but sometimes I see them dismissed.
Here's what I use.

Sure they won't recover you from a crash, but I argue they'll keep you from having one.

I run sugars, heads, all-grains, and I'm sure my due date would've shown up by now.

I've got three brew socks, one for each bucket, and put a half fist-sized lump of oyster shells in each.
They're easily recovered this way. About every fourth use I see they've lost about 1/3 to 1/2 volume so SOMEthing's happening.

I'm a devout believer in shells, and if you've ever had a crash or just want to avoid one, I urge you to consider using them.

[dieselduo]

+1 on the oyster shells . I usually only use them when adding backset which gives a lower ph

[rubelstrudel]

I've been on the lookout for this. But haven't found anything just similar yet. They do however sell chicken feed enhancer in the feed store next door that looks to be about the same thing, just broken up a bit more. There is some regular sand in there as well, but that wouldn't hurt my brews as far as I am able to understand.



The sack says: "Best quality. Feed shell-sand."

[fizzix]

Your crisis is the one that prompted this thread, rubelstrudel.
The poultry feed supplement works great. (Mine is crushed pretty small too.)
I hope you get some and they avert stalls in your future. Best Wishes!

[Saltbush Bill]

I have to wonder Fizzix,? Ive been running the same 60L UJSMs ferments for around 7 years now....50+ generations, I gave up counting at 50. I have never adjusted PH, neither of these washes have ever stalled.
I know at least a couple of other distillers doing the same thing, what should I credit this too?
Point is I don't think its a great idea to make newbies and others think that its completely necessary to use oyster shells, or any form of PH adjustment for that matter...because in many cases its simply not needed.

[fizzix]

I have to wonder Fizzix,? Ive been running the same 60L UJSMs ferments for around 7 years now....50+ generations, I gave up counting at 50. I have never adjusted PH, neither of these washes have ever stalled.
I know at least a couple of other distillers doing the same thing, what should I credit this too?

Good clean living I'd bet, Salty.

Perhaps your water chemistry buffers pH.
Perhaps your stars are aligned properly.
And perhaps a better term would've been "insurance."

Three things I know:
1) Folks are having crashes
2) My oyster shells diminish with each run
3) I've never had a crash

Maybe it's the "skyhook delusion," but I will err on the side of success and the science that others had presented when I learned about shells.

[Copperhead road]

I have to wonder Fizzix,? Ive been running the same 60L UJSMs ferments for around 7 years now....50+ generations, I gave up counting at 50. I have never adjusted PH, neither of these washes have ever stalled.
I know at least a couple of other distillers doing the same thing, what should I credit this too?
Point is I don't think its a great idea to make newbies and others think that its completely necessary to use oyster shells, or any form of PH adjustment for that matter...because in many cases its simply not needed.

+1 and never had a PH issue to date. Good advice to new starters Salty

I lost count at Gen 15 but you have been distilling many many more years than me! No doubt I will have my 3 200L fermenters of UJ still running in another 5 years from now!

[rubelstrudel]

Come to think of it - Now, as summer is soon upon us. I could just stop by our local beach and pick a couple of kg of white shells totally free. A quick boil in fresh water should get rid of salts, insects and other organics.

shell

skjell.jpg (16.04 KiB) Viewed 2486 times

[bluefish_dist]

Really depends on your water and the size of the fermentation. I used oyster shells in 15 gallon fermentations with well water and had no ph issues. Now I use city water and do 85 or 110 gallon fermentations and had big crashes with oyster shells. They simply did not dissolve fast enough to prevent a crash.
Now I use calcium carbonate and citric acid in equal parts by volume to increase buffering capacity. It also changes as the water source changes. Some times I need more and others less as the city changes the water source during the year. It also depends on what I am fermenting as some sugar sources have more buffering capacity that others. Blue agave has none, all grains and rum have a lot more.

[jon1163]

I just read another thread about 2 pH stalls and 1 recovery.

I always have 3 ferments going -always- and have for about 8~9 months.
Early on this forum taught me about crushed oyster shell pH buffering, but sometimes I see them dismissed.
Here's what I use.

Sure they won't recover you from a crash, but I argue they'll keep you from having one.

I run sugars, heads, all-grains, and I'm sure my due date would've shown up by now.

I've got three brew socks, one for each bucket, and put a half fist-sized lump of oyster shells in each.
They're easily recovered this way. About every fourth use I see they've lost about 1/3 to 1/2 volume so SOMEthing's happening.

I'm a devout believer in shells, and if you've ever had a crash or just want to avoid one, I urge you to consider using them.

Half of fist sized lump of oyster shells / what size ferment fizz?

[fizzix]

6 gallons, jon.

[DAD300]

Your water quality is everything as to Ph crash or not to crash. Not just the starting Ph, but other properties.

I got a really smelly bag of crushed shells last year and went looking for another alternative.

I now use decorative white marble rocks intended for the lawn. About $3usd for a fifty pound bag. I put them in a 2lt cola bottle with holes poked in it, hanging on a string.

With my water, a 200 gallon rum ferment will eat about a pound of rock in a week and hold the Ph steady in the low 4ish range.

No acid...no eat rock! Acidic...eats the rock.

[jonnys_spirit]

I just started using oyster shells and yep they fizzle away and seem to be beneficial on my 10-15g ferments. 5lb bag cost me $15 via amazon and looks like that’ll last a long time. Seems like it’s good insurance and I also picked up a couple lbs calcium hydroxide to adjust backset that’s dropping too low a pH value.

Cheers!
-j

[dukethebeagle120]

Really depends on your water and the size of the fermentation. I used oyster shells in 15 gallon fermentations with well water and had no ph issues. Now I use city water and do 85 or 110 gallon fermentations and had big crashes with oyster shells. They simply did not dissolve fast enough to prevent a crash.
Now I use calcium carbonate and citric acid in equal parts by volume to increase buffering capacity. It also changes as the water source changes. Some times I need more and others less as the city changes the water source during the year. It also depends on what I am fermenting as some sugar sources have more buffering capacity that others. Blue agave has none, all grains and rum have a lot more.

Point well made
Well Water has lots of minerals.town Water does not

[rubelstrudel]

Well Water has lots of minerals.town Water does not

I wouldn't postulate that as a universal truth. Artesian wells may have hard or soft water, but tend to the soft side with little calcium since they mainly draw on surface water. Deep wells into the underlying aquifer may be hard or soft depending on the rock of the area. Surface water tend to be soft in the lowlands and harder in mountain lakes. You'll have to do an analysis to know exactly where you are.

[zapata]

My experience mirrors saltbush's. The vast majority of my runs have needed nothing. The vast majority have gotten nothing. I don't remember ever having a ph crash associated with a stall. I do sometimes measure and adjust ph, if I have a specific reason to, but not just so my wash will ferment.

Fizzix, keep in mind most people post problems. Very few people are posting every successful ferment. Maybe that skews the perception of how common a problem this is? Of course I wouldn't suggest you muck with what is working, but if you ever run out or can't be bothered, try without, you may be just fine. And for any beginner, might as well start without and only add if needed.

Anybody good enough with water chemistry to give some general guidelines people could look for in their water reports?

[aircarbonarc]

I have to wonder Fizzix,? Ive been running the same 60L UJSMs ferments for around 7 years now....50+ generations, I gave up counting at 50. I have never adjusted PH, neither of these washes have ever stalled.
I know at least a couple of other distillers doing the same thing, what should I credit this too?
Point is I don't think its a great idea to make newbies and others think that its completely necessary to use oyster shells, or any form of PH adjustment for that matter...because in many cases its simply not needed.

Have you been using the same water source also? You might be blessed with a high ph hard water.

[Truckinbutch]

I use 3/4 quart oyster shells in 30 gallon ferments and have not had issues since starting this practice . Not saying it's a cure all . Just reporting my results .

[Pikey]

I have to wonder Fizzix,? Ive been running the same 60L UJSMs ferments for around 7 years now....50+ generations, I gave up counting at 50. I have never adjusted PH, neither of these washes have ever stalled.
I know at least a couple of other distillers doing the same thing, what should I credit this too?
Point is I don't think its a great idea to make newbies and others think that its completely necessary to use oyster shells, or any form of PH adjustment for that matter...because in many cases its simply not needed.

Have you been using the same water source also? You might be blessed with a high ph hard water.

Here in the Uk - most "tap-water" is on the high side of neutral, because the water companies keep it that way to prevent corrosion in pipes and valves. I suspect the same may be true of US.

However, I have made wine and beer for decades and stilled for a long while now. I have Never heard of "stalled ferments" due to low ph in any winemaking literature nor experienced it in beer making, nor in stillin' - I have never put any form of calcium carbonate or any other exotic "adjuncts" in my stuff. - If it happens in stillin, why not in winemaking ?

I had thought t possible that those using bulk dses of bread yeast may be overpowering the was with carbonic acid and this could be the problem, but I've started using it too now, in more modest quantities than some, and have no experience of any PH crash, - much the same as many of the others on this thread have said.

[shadylane]

What I use, has both crushed oyster shell and coral
My 15ish gallon ferments are faster, when using it.

[Saltbush Bill]

My experience mirrors saltbush's. The vast majority of my runs have needed nothing. The vast majority have gotten nothing. I don't remember ever having a ph crash associated with a stall.

I use rain water from my water tank, which collects from my roof Zapata.

Fizzix, keep in mind most people post problems. Very few people are posting every successful ferment. Maybe that skews the perception of how common a problem this is?

I would also suggest that its worth considering that people of late seem to start chanting PH, PH ,PH as soon as a ferment stops. Often it is proved not be the PH at all , but something as simple as the air lock leaking, the temperature of the wash being way to low or sometimes a combination of both, sometimes it is other problems. Most of the ferment stall posts seem to be by newbies who don't know to look for these things.

If PH and crashes are such a huge problem why is it that none of the original Owners/ Posters of the Tried and True recipes , things like UJSM, Hook Rum, Pugirum, TPW did not say in the recipe ..."Beware this wash will crash and stall if you do not adjust PH.... or add Oyster Shells" ????
Should I believe that these people where clever enough to come up with a Tried and True recipe but they just forgot to add the bit about PH and crashes?

[aircarbonarc]

i think i want to give this a try, i have had good luck with that phosphate based 5.2 PH buffer. Unfortunately my washes are coming out pretty acidic, the final product seems fine, i only get stuck ferments from jaggery for some reason, and with most other . Im using city water as well, it a ph of 7.05-7.1 and very soft, so i do always add Calcium Carbonate just for a better malt flavor. My AG batches are pretty consistent except i had a an all rice 15gal batch decide to be a pain and the ph just crashed, and Jaggery has always been a challenge. I do like the idea of using oyster shells as it seems like a great way to monitor how much your mash is eating up so in the future as well as going legit you can accurately measure and harness the perfect PH for the best final product.

[zapata]

I really doubt that 5.2 is doing anything for you. I used it for a while when I started brewing, and just like the beer forum joke goes, it worked great until I got a ph meter Certainly in this context the closer it gets to a "crash" ph the less it can even theoretically do. I recently played with it in some dunder and it took like a tablespoon to raise the ph of a cupful by a few tenths starting at just 4.75. And in a real ph crash you'll be a lot lower than that with much more volume.

Maybe you have the perfect water for it to help mash ph, but you'd probably be the first such person in the history of the internet. But you've got a jug, gotta use it, right? Yeah, I still have mine too and still keep trying to use it up...

[Saltbush Bill]

and just like the beer forum joke goes, it worked great until I got a ph meter

I think exactly the same joke could be applied to a lot of washes.

[vqstatesman]

I make a lot of rum and like to use a good 25% backset, I also ferment well over 10% ABV. pH has been an issue for me too.

I recently started using generic sea shells and have seen a great improvement on the pH crash issue.

I'm unsure if generic sea shells are as good as oyster shells? Oyster seems to be more popular.

[dukethebeagle120]

Well Water has lots of minerals.town Water does not

I wouldn't postulate that as a universal truth. Artesian wells may have hard or soft water, but tend to the soft side with little calcium since they mainly draw on surface water. Deep wells into the underlying aquifer may be hard or soft depending on the rock of the area. Surface water tend to be soft in the lowlands and harder in mountain lakes. You'll have to do an analysis to know exactly where you are.

Point Well taken
M'y well Water is hard as hell

[aircarbonarc]

and just like the beer forum joke goes, it worked great until I got a ph meter

I think exactly the same joke could be applied to a lot of washes.

I'm going to try just citric acid, calcium carbonate and oyster shells. I was doubting the stuff myself. I have a ph reader I just don't know how to use it.

[aircarbonarc]

Well Water has lots of minerals.town Water does not

I wouldn't postulate that as a universal truth. Artesian wells may have hard or soft water, but tend to the soft side with little calcium since they mainly draw on surface water. Deep wells into the underlying aquifer may be hard or soft depending on the rock of the area. Surface water tend to be soft in the lowlands and harder in mountain lakes. You'll have to do an analysis to know exactly where you are.

Point Well taken
M'y well Water is hard as hell

I grew up on a well, the water wasn't too hard, but it was tasty as hell and had enough minerals in it to cause a little buildup but no rust. I would love to use that water today to make grain liquor. My grandparents however had the hardest well water, they lives in the interior of BC. I remember as a kid I wouldn't drink it, I stayed hydrated by drinking tea and juice. They put in a water softener it was some machine that made alot of noise but made the water drinkable. I'm wondering also what that water would do with a mash, my grandpa always said his garden loved it and it was full of minerals. Never remember any rust stains just white scale.

[shadylane]

What I use, has both crushed oyster shell and coral
My 15ish gallon ferments are faster, when using it.

I'm quoting myself
Crushed Oyster Shells may not be necessary, but they surely don't hurt

[bilgriss]

Unless you step on them.