All Grain Bourbon

Production methods from starch to sugars.

Moderator: Site Moderator

hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

I tried pressing using a wine and fruit press. Worked pretty good. Wish it was bigger but it resulted in a clearer liquid than my juicer.

I ended up with 2 full 23L carboys and about 1/2-2/3 of another after stripping runs. In order to fill a 23L barrel after spirit runs I’m thinking I should get one more bag of corn. Do you all usually need three bags of corn for that amount of spirit?
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

hawkwing wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:57 am I tried pressing using a wine and fruit press. Worked pretty good. Wish it was bigger but it resulted in a clearer liquid than my juicer.

I ended up with 2 full 23L carboys and about 1/2-2/3 of another after stripping runs. In order to fill a 23L barrel after spirit runs I’m thinking I should get one more bag of corn. Do you all usually need three bags of corn for that amount of spirit?
Recycling feints into the next batch, it took me three 50 pound sacks of feed corn to get 6 gallons of all corn liquor at 60% to fill a barrel and a jug. 3 mashes, 6 stripping runs and 3 spirit runs. I bunged it in November. I'll check it in July or August and top it off from the gallon jug, or add water to lower the proof for a few more months of aging at a reduced ABV.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

I called to get another bag of flaked corn and I can’t get it. It’s special order and they won’t do it for one bag. Looks like they just had some last time.

Guess I’m going to have to get a corona mill and the cheaper feed corn and cook it. I like that electric grain grinder from the Argristoreusa but not sure if I can affordably get anything better in the north. If anyone knows of something please let me know.
Last edited by hawkwing on Tue May 10, 2022 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

A good Corona mill and a power drill will do fine. I use a 100+ year old grist mill to mill my feed corn when I use it.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
rubberduck71
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 735
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 11:22 am
Location: Eastern PA

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by rubberduck71 »

hawkwing wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:53 am If anyone knows of something please let me know.
If you're in the U.S., check out The Restaurant Store. It's not flaked, but coarsely ground corn meal for ~$25 on a 50 lb bag.
There are two times of year: FOOTBALL SEASON and... Waiting For Football Season
User avatar
Twisted Brick
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3771
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
Location: Craigh Na Dun

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by Twisted Brick »

When I first started buying from Restaurant Depot 50lb sacks of food-grade fine ground cornmeal were $14. The price had risen to $21 (Los Angeles) back in February, but because of the pandemic, this membership-only store has been selling to the public.

https://www.restaurantdepot.com/locatio ... -warehouse
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”

- W.C. Fields

My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

Thanks. How clean is cracked corn vs whole corn? I assume that cracked is easier to grind but does it have other debris in it? Not in the US unfortunately for buying reasons.
User avatar
subbrew
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:40 pm
Location: West of the Mississippi

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by subbrew »

hawkwing wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:53 am Thanks. How clean is cracked corn vs whole corn? I assume that cracked is easier to grind but does it have other debris in it? Not in the US unfortunately for buying reasons.
Depends on the mill but for a given mill cracked corn and whole corn should be the same as far as foriegn matter. The mill would have just taken whole corn and ran it through a roller to crack it. So it it the same corn/material. And yes, cracked is a little easier to grind as it is already started.
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

Would there be a difference in freshness or other reason to get whole vs cracked?
User avatar
subbrew
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:40 pm
Location: West of the Mississippi

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by subbrew »

assuming decent turn over of inventory I doubt there would be much difference. But if it sat for a long period, like a year or more, the cracked has more O2 exposure and will loose more flavor
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

Ok thanks. How much harder is whole corn to grind in a corona mill?
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by still_stirrin »

hawkwing wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:48 am Ok thanks. How much harder is whole corn to grind in a corona mill?
“How long is a piece of string?”

Whole corn can be run through a Corona mill a couple of times until you get the grind you desire. And, moisture content will affect the kernal’s “hardness”, drier being much harder to grind. Loosen the grinding plates slightly and run the whole corn through, then tighten the plates and rerun the already cracked grains. You’ll get a better grind with more uniformity of the meal granular size.

Don’t be afraid to “try something”. You won’t solve all of life’s challenges without getting your hands dirty.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

Thanks I’ll give it a try with whole corn if they have. Sure will beat the near $100 for the flaked corn from the other supplier I know.
User avatar
subbrew
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:40 pm
Location: West of the Mississippi

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by subbrew »

Check the animal feed stores or mills for flaked corn. Around her there is only a dollar or tow difference in flaked and cracked corn.
bluc
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:32 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by bluc »

Hawkwing how well does the juicer work for squeezing the mash? Do you have a pic of it?
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

bluc wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:28 pm Hawkwing how well does the juicer work for squeezing the mash? Do you have a pic of it?
Check out the first post for the picture. It works ok. It presses out a lot of solids so the result is thicker. Not sure if that gets our much more alcohol. A centrifugal juicer is just a mess in my opinion. It didn’t work well. The wine press didn’t get out as much but the liquid cleared really well. Much less solids.
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

subbrew wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 7:49 pm Check the animal feed stores or mills for flaked corn. Around her there is only a dollar or tow difference in flaked and cracked corn.
I’ll have to find additional feed stores and see what I can find.
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

I think it’s a phone call question not an internet question. I found some in another part of the county.

Do you grind flaked corn or use it as is?
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

I ended up with whole corn. Did a double grind. I picked out a few bits but was lots of crap in there I didn't really see until I added it to the water and it floated. Just a note that if the water is too hot not much will float and it'll clump. I boil my water first to drive off the chlorine and didn't let the third batch cool. I add a tsp of alpha amylase and that prevents the thickening as it heats. I thought adding the backset and grain would cool it enough. Well I barely skimmed anything off of that batch. If I was lucky maybe an eighth of the other batches. Some batches I filled that bowl heaping too. That was for 9 lbs 4 oz of corn. I ended up adding an extra half pound to compensate for what I removed. I can't imagine there being much of a difference between the cracked and whole and I'm hoping the cracked will be a quicker single grind. For the significant cost savings I can deal with it. The flaked was a lot easier to deal with though and I think had a slight edge on yield (SG is 0.005 to 0.010 lower). I might have to compensate in my recipe for this. I had about 4 lbs extra so I just made the last batch a little larger with a little more backset and other grains. I mixed with the first two and hit my usual 1.070+ SG.
Skimmed floaties
Skimmed floaties
Floaties in pot
Floaties in pot
User avatar
subbrew
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:40 pm
Location: West of the Mississippi

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by subbrew »

I have a sieve to use skimming cob and other foriegn material off the top when using corn. Easier than trying to skim it. Just sweep the sieve around and bring it out.
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

I finally got the stripping runs done when it was cool and raining. I have a full 23L carboy and maybe 1 to 2L more. I'm very pleased with the taste. I ran it through my 20L alembic. It works really nice. Since it was the first time I've done a spirit run using the alembic I collected in 1 cup/250 ml jars. I ended up filling 48 jars by the time I got down to 15% ABV. I was able to use about 50% or just a bit over. Basically the middle. I went from just where it was clean and no sharp heads taste or smell (about 10-11 jars in) to about one clear jar before it went cloudy (one clear jar didn't go in). That's where the smell changed to wet cardboard. The white dog tastes really good. This is my first time using 70% corn. I've made mostly rum, malt barley based whisky and neutral for fortifying wine before this. I was surprised that at no point was there anything really nasty. In my past experience especially with rum the tails turn fairly offensive to the olfactory sense. Even the white dog is quite drinkable even at 62%. I may decide to bottle at cask strength. I'm surprised how much flavor comes through. My buddy thought everything that was distilled tasted the same and the flavor come from the aging container.

I am around 62%. I have two alcohol hydrometers and a refractometer and they all read different. Even on commercial spirits they don't read what the label says. The refractometer reads below 60, one hydrometer reads 65 and the other I think was a little higher. I'm not sure why they calibrate the hydrometers for 60F as I don't know what working environment is 60F. I found a calibration table for 20C so I can make some adjustments.

My other first is using a barrel so this is exciting. I charred the barrel on Thursday and started to wet it. It's new but been stored dry for probably 5 plus years. It leaked like a sieve for a couple days and then had wet spots on the outsides for another day or so. Now it appears to be dry on the outside and it's keeping full. When I get home on Wednesday I'll be draining it and filling it with the white dog. I'm wondering if I can save the oak tea for wine making.
Came toasted (before charring)
Came toasted (before charring)
Charred lid
Charred lid
Charred inside
Charred inside
Soaking in fermenter
Soaking in fermenter
Full of water and not leaking
Full of water and not leaking
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

It’s finally in the barrel. Maybe come Xmas I’ll have to take a sample and top it off.
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

The end of the staves on one end of the barrel started to leak at certain temperatures. had a few stains from the oak infused liquor. I ended up melting beeswax in with a hot air gun to the end of the staves.
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by The Baker »

hawkwing wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:39 pm The end of the staves on one end of the barrel started to leak at certain temperatures. had a few stains from the oak infused liquor. I ended up melting beeswax in with a hot air gun to the end of the staves.
And it worked okay?

Geoff
The Baker
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

The Baker wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:45 am
hawkwing wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:39 pm The end of the staves on one end of the barrel started to leak at certain temperatures. had a few stains from the oak infused liquor. I ended up melting beeswax in with a hot air gun to the end of the staves.
And it worked okay?

I think so. I’m checking it regularly to see.

Come to think of it I recall watching a video of a cooperage and they applied something to the ends with a brush. Even though mine wasn’t completely finished it looked varnished on the end grain. I might have to sand that off then beeswax again.

Geoff
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

For those of you using barrels for you often smell the barrel/liquor leaking through the barrel? Is that what they call barrel candy? I’m finding with temperature swings sometimes the liquor squeezes out around the bung or the head. Does anyone notice anything similar? I noticed a little liquid collecting on the end of the barrel at the bottom. There is also one small spot that must be leaking out the grain. Wax doesn’t seem to seal it but it seems to be a small amount.
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

It will eventually seal up with barrel candy. Or it should anyway. It will form a sticky resin.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
hawkwing
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:57 am

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by hawkwing »

Deplorable wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:43 pm It will eventually seal up with barrel candy. Or it should anyway. It will form a sticky resin.
How long does that usually take? It’s been in there for 4 months and a week.
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: All Grain Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

Depends. I had a spot on one of my barrels that got a sticky goober on the side between staves. When I first noticed it, there was a wet spot about the size of a dollar bill folded in half. About a week later in the hot garage, it was sealed up but there was a sticky brown booger where the leak was. It hasn't leaked since then.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Post Reply