Corn cooking project

[Rivver]

A while back I started a thread on canning cracked corn to gelentanize before using in a mash. After doing a bit more experimenting I've came up with a process that works pretty darn good. I use a 7 quart canner, so of course I make 7 quarts at a time. First I fill up each quart with 3/4 lb of cracked corn which is about 3/4 of the jar. Then fill with to the 800 ml line with water, or just below the neck of the jar leaving about 1/2 to 3/4" head room. Clean the rims and seal with good lids and rings tightly. I then process in the canner for 1 hour at 10 lbs. Make sure and cool down slowly as you don't want to blow up any jars.

A full 1 lb of corn will work too, but I've found it's much easier to get the corn out with 3/4 lb of corn and a bit more water. The corn takes on a waxy texture and sticks together well. I just use a large spoon to spoon it out of the jars. There will be large clumps coming out but don't worry if you mash with hot water they will pretty much break up on their own.

I started up a mash of corn and rolled oats the other night, it worked perfect. I only used 6 jars of corn or 4.5 lbs of corn because I had 4 lbs of oats to use also. I added all the grain to the fermentor, then added water at 190* F to the mix and stirred well. After a rest of 20 minutes or so, most of the large clumps had broken up nicely. I then added 2 lbs of 2 row and a bit of AG, to it at 152*F and stirred well. After 90 minutes all the clumps were broken down and the mash really thinned out nicely. After 3 hours I added cold water to 5.5 gallons on the fermentor. My SG was just below 1.06. I pitched a pack of Prestige WD and put the lid on with the airlock. It started working within an hour and has been working steadily since.

The advantages of canning the corn are you will never have to worry about burnt or scortched corn, and you can run several batches for future use. It should stay good in the jar for months if not years as long as the seal is good. This will greatly reduce your prep time when mashing, just heat up your water high enough for mashing and dump it on the grain, just like you would with flaked maize. Also, 7 jars at 3/4 lb will give you 5 1/4 lbs of corn which is near perfect for a 5 gallon ferment if adding another grain.

Let me know if anyone tries this and what they think of it.

[WalkingWolf]

Thanks for reporting Rivver -- I've never done an all-grain but will definitely keep it in mind when that time comes. (I have done plenty of canning )

[Buteo]

What is the specfic gravity before you pitch the yeast? Do you sparge?

[Rivver]

SG was 1.058-59, and no, I ferment on the grain.

[Rivver]

Thanks for reporting Rivver -- I've never done an all-grain but will definitely keep it in mind when that time comes. (I have done plenty of canning )

Wolf, you need to try an AG mash, it's well worth the extra work. I've really grown fond of the corn and oats mash and it's relatively easy enought to do if you pay attention to detail and take your time.

[Slowninja]

How is this not a hugely popilar topic?!?!

I'm going to buy a canner soon. I've scorched my corn 2 out of 4 times, this sounds like an excellent idea

[Rivver]

Ran another batch through the canner last night, took me 5 minutes prep time, and another 90 minutes of watching TV until it was done.

Well maybe it was a little over 90 minutes, I just turn the stove burner on med-low and wait until it hits 10 lbs of pressure then time it for an hour from there. No stirring, no nothing, after an hour I just shut the burner off and leave until the next morning.

[Slowninja]

Picked up my canner today. Even with cleaning everything for the first time, I was on the stove cooking in about 10 minutes. Its on the stove now with the 10lb vent on top, we'll see how this goes!

[Slowninja]

Just like Rivver was sayin, about 1 1/2 hour total time, my corn was ready to go. Not a single scorch, no stirring. I have never canned anything in my life. This was so easy, and practically fool proof.

I'll be testing the other theory that the corn will stay good a while. I already have a batch in my fermenter, and none of my buckets are clean. So it'll probably be a week (at least) before I finish my mash

Thanks Rivver for the new mashing method. This will definitely be my way from now on. Super easy

[Rivver]

Awesome!! hey just remember, after you shut the heat off on the corn, let it cool down on it's own. Leave the lid on the canner until it does, because there will still be pressure inside the jar when they are hot. Happy mashing!!!

[Slowninja]

Good to know! I left the lid on about half an hour then removed it and pulled the jars out. Didn't have any break, guess I got lucky. I'll leave it be longer next time

[Rivver]

Yeah, I've made the mistake before when canning some deer meat to open it too fast (wanted to get the next batch going) and blew a lid off of one and blew up a jar on another.

[travelin man]

I am intrigued! But I was wondering if using canned corn from the store?

[Lupus]

Rivver
Thanks for the post. I was considering a no cook sugarhead for my first bourbon, but your method of cooking the corn looks fairly easy with no stirring and no risk of scorching!

I see you increased your time under pressure from 45 min in the original post to an hour. Did it increase the starch conversion significantly? Would any more time be advantageous? After processing, is any of the water in the jars taken up by the corn? (ie, does the water level drop?)

Slowninja,
I would be curious to see your feedback on your first ferment with this canned corn.

[Dnderhead]

how about using a pot in your cooker? rather than jars.
the only thing i see about this is it makes a small amount.

[Slowninja]

Dnder, this is true, it does make small amounts at one time.

However, the amount of actual work involved makes it very easy. In fact, i'm on my second batch of the day right now, which will make 3 batches total that i'll have ready. I'd guess my corn weight to be around 16 lbs, fully gelatinized. I would have enough for 10-12 gallons of NCHooch's bourbon ready to go whenever i'm ready, and the amount of work i've actually had to physically do was only about 10 minutes worth. Very easy.

Your idea about the pot, in a pot sounds interesting. I'm not sure whether or not it would work, due to the lack of sealing in the inside pot (steam may enter and waterlog the corn?)

I'm curious if a waterbath canner would work, instead of a pressure canner. If it would, that means a pot in a pot (i.e. false bottom?) WOULD work. Basically you're heating the water, so the pan with the corn wouldn't recieve any direct heat (no scorching). Perhaps with a good fitting lid, it may work?

I have a 6 gallon mash tun, and a 5 gallon mash tun that I may try this with. Problem being I dont have a lid for the 5 gallon pot. That would simplify the process even more, because you'd be able to cook a ton of corn at one time (although cooking time may be extended)

[Slowninja]

Also, Lupus: I haven't done a ferment yet. I just ran an all grain wash last night, and piggybacked some sugar on top. I plan on doing this one more time before disposing of the grain bed. So, i'm about 3-4 weeks away from using the corn i've processed. In doing so, i'm testing the theory that the corn will stay good, since it's been canned.

[Lupus]

Slowninja,
If the corn can be stored, this would be a big plus, as you could batch process the corn and ferment at your leisure.

Pretty much the rationale behind canning

[Lupus]

Pot in a pot would really just be a double boiler.

The batch size is small. But the added ability to store processed corn adds to its advantages. If batch size is a concern, what about half gallon jars of corn?

One question though. Does the water in the jars (which is essentially unmeasured) count towards the final recipe in mashing?

[Dnderhead]

i start a 5 gallon AG ferment with 10 lbs of dry grain (more or less)
my caner holds 6 qt jars,,1 qt jar of grain is about 1 lb, 1/2 jar will be 1/2 lb
so one batch will be 3lb of grain.so id need to do 3-4 batches in the cooker
to make one ferment.

[Slowninja]

i start a 5 gallon AG ferment with 10 lbs of dry grain (more or less)
my caner holds 6 qt jars,,1 qt jar of grain is about 1 lb, 1/2 jar will be 1/2 lb
so one batch will be 3lb of grain.so id need to do 3-4 batches in the cooker
to make one ferment.

I fill mine to about 3/4 mark, as suggested in the OP. It's about 3/4 of a lb, meaning 13 jars. You could fill it just a bit past the 3/4 mark and make it in exactly 2 batches for one ferment?

[Slowninja]

Pot in a pot would really just be a double boiler.

The batch size is small. But the added ability to store processed corn adds to its advantages. If batch size is a concern, what about half gallon jars of corn?

One question though. Does the water in the jars (which is essentially unmeasured) count towards the final recipe in mashing?

The problem with half gallon jars (although that would be GREAT) is canners typically only take up to quart jars.

The water in the jars is negligible, and in most recipes i've ever seen you top up to a certain volume anyways. Which means the water doesn't matter.

[Rivver]

One of the reasons I upped the time to one hour is to insure all pathogens are killed. If not there could be a possibility of contamination in a jar. The actual "cooking" or gelantanization of the starch I would think would happen very quickly in a pressure cooker. So I don't think 45 min or an hour will make much difference when it comes to releasing starches. You could prolly get by with 15 min at 10 lbs if you are going to use the corn immediately.

[Rivver]

Sorry Lupus, I missed one of your posts earlier. Yes the water in the jar is taken up by the corn and dispersed evenly through out, kind of like steaming it. When you add hot water later during the mashing process more will be taken up, but the starches are released. When I run my mashes, I don't really pay much attention to the exact amount of water I put into the mash, I just fill to 5-5.5 gallons of water in my fermentor. When I strain the mash out, I usually end up with about 3.5 to 4 gallons of beer. From that I collect approximately 3 quarts of distilate on the stripping run.

[FreeMountainHermit]

I'm WAAAAAY new to this mashing process. Is this where Alpha enzymes come into play ????


FMH.

[Lupus]

I'm pretty new to this as well, so someone correct me if I am wrong.However, the cooking process is to free the starch from the corn. The amylase enzymes are then used in the mashing process to convert the liberated starches into sugars which can then be fermented by the yeast into ethanol.

[Jimbo]

I'm pretty new to this as well, so someone correct me if I am wrong.However, the cooking process is to free the starch from the corn. The amylase enzymes are then used in the mashing process to convert the liberated starches into sugars which can then be fermented by the yeast into ethanol.

That is correct yes. Cooking the corn gelatinizes the corn and makes it more readily accessible to the enymes.

I'm WAAAAAY new to this mashing process. Is this where Alpha enzymes come into play ????

FMH.

Yes. But youre better off with beta amylase than alpha amylase, and unfortunately the only way to get those is off some malted barley. Barley has both beta and alpha amylase. Beta cleaves the long starch molecules from the ends of the starch chains inward into perfect maltose that yeast love. Alpha amylase randomly cleaves the starch chain into random size chunks. Some are fermentable sugars, some are not. This is great for beer to give it more body and sweetness, not so good for distillers who want to convert all starch into fermentable sugars.

Long story short, alpha amylase out of a jar will work fine. But a true bourbon will use malt and a careful mashing process in the mid 140's F to convert the mash starches.

[Uncle Jemima]

This is a GREAT idea. I'm going to look into this now. I love my all grain but the obvious disadvantage is the time standing over the pot stirring. I don't mind it too much as its all part of the hobby. But the wife sure hates when I end up spending eight hours on a mash on a Saturday when I've been at work all week.

Figure two hours to get about five gallons to a boil. I try to keep it at a boil between an hour and a half to two hours. Another two hours cooling to mash temps while I grind my barley. Then I like to hold at mash temps for an hour and a half to two hours to ensure full conversion before covering and insulating.

This seems so obviously convenient. Don't know why I never thought of it when considering all the options out there for getting corn.

[Uncle Jemima]

I'm curious. Is there any way you could cook the corn in mason/canning jars without using a pressure cooker? I've got a 32 qt 3 ply bottom stock pot that I usually use for my mashing and cooking. Is the pressure cooker a must or could I use the same basic method, placing the corn and water in the half gallon mason jars and then letting them boil in the stock pot.

I have absolutely no experience with canning so I'm just wondering if the supplies I've already got would work. The look my wife gave me (not actually Aunt Jemima btw) was not a good one when I mentioned possibly spending an extra hundred dollars on my hobby that she's already not a huge fan of.

[Lupus]

Uncle Jemima,
I suspect the answer is no as the pressure canner is an important part of the process. But you may want to defer to Rivver to confirm.

Cooking within the pressure canner increases the pressure within the canner/ cooker, allowing the boiling temperature within the cooker/canner to rise above the normal atmospheric pressure, thus allowing the boiling temperature to rise above 100 Celcius. The increased pressure and temperature would allow for the decreased cook time and in canning the killing of the micro organisms that induce food spoilage.

Cooking in mason jars within a stock pot will miss this component and would probably be more like cooking in a double boiler. Direct heat would be less of an issue, reducing the chance of scorching. But you would miss some of the benefits of cooking in a pressurised environment.

On a side note though, to tie in with Odin's Mailard Reaction thread, cooking at the increased temperature within a pressure cooker, does promote the Mailard reaction compared with normal boiling. However, I am unclear how that applies in a pressure canning environment.