How much malt and do i need to grind?

[Jimbo]

+1 to Rad. Youtube video's on the topic are almost without exception worthless misleading crap.

nerd you gotta get some barrels dude, fermenting on the grain in carboys sounds like a freakin pain in the balls. I have 2 20g barrels with clamp on lids that I'd die without. Find some of these babies.

Edit: BTW, arent ya glad ya didnt panic and throw sugar in there. 1.052 is damn respectable. youre doing good, keep your wits about ya.

[Uncle Jemima]

I might be a noob at grain washes but I have done 50 sugar washes

From my own limited experience. That's part of the problem. After doing so many sugar washes you naturally expect a similar yield from all grain. Almost dumped my first batch because of it. Remember you'll get much smaller amounts from all grain. Keep everything you get(minus fore shots of course) until you've done enough all grain runs to mix them together and do a spirit run.

You probably ditched a good all grain batch by adding sugar. If it ran hard for three days there was good hooch in there.

And just to be sure this was helpful and that you get the message.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Fucking pay attention.

That approach seems to work for my white trash neighbor when he talks to his kids so maybe that will help me get a point across to you too.

Learn from your mistakes and you'll get it. Nobody gets it right straight out the gate.

[Dnderhead]

"I just watched a youtube video again that had 1.5 2 row to 10 lbs of corn."
it can be done but you can run into difficulties.
enzymes dont brake down as their used.(unless over heated etc.)so will just keep working. using less
will just slow the proses down.that is one reason for "on grain ferments" and sour mashing .

"I did see one guy mash with only half the water."
again this can be done. but the difficulties are the migration of enzymes.
enzymes don't swim or crawl around like bugs, and they don't go and fiend starch.
if you want to search ,some one on HD used the SOP method.

[Xnerd]

Some times I think people are giving false information intentionally!
Some of the crap that people say is unreal.


On the topic at hand:

It happened again! one of my identical carboys failed to start fermenting!
I realized it was the same carboy that it happened to last time!

I checked it out. it turned out to be a crack in the seal of the screw on lid! LOL!
I use those great big lab carboys with the 4 inch screw on cap. it has a an o-ring pressed up into a groove inside the top of the lid.
It had developed a small crack in the O-Ring. All I had to do is crank on it hard to smash it closed again!

I almost started to flail I will have to admit.

[Xnerd]

+1 to Rad. Youtube video's on the topic are almost without exception worthless misleading crap.

nerd you gotta get some barrels dude, fermenting on the grain in carboys sounds like a freakin pain in the balls. I have 2 20g barrels with clamp on lids that I'd die without. Find some of these babies.

Edit: BTW, arent ya glad ya didnt panic and throw sugar in there. 1.052 is damn respectable. youre doing good, keep your wits about ya.

cornmash.JPG

I have been looking for just that.... I have a couple of 30 gallon ones but they were for sugar as they would be a bitch to clean out (they have bungs not lids)
I have found some 50 gallon ones with the screw on lids sort of hex shaped lids but again a bit too big.

I might have a 15 gallon keg this weekend, a friend is checking. I 20 gallon barrel would be perfect though...
Let me know if you know where to get more!

remember I am in Michigan too!@

[Xnerd]

I might be a noob at grain washes but I have done 50 sugar washes

You probably ditched a good all grain batch by adding sugar.

Nah the one your talking about where I added sugar was 3 or 4 batches ago and it turned out real good. Not quite as good as the two batches that I did with no sugar but very good none the less.
I only put 3 lbs of sugar in 12 gallons so it made little difference.

[Jimbo]

It happened again! one of my identical carboys failed to start fermenting!
It had developed a small crack in the O-Ring. All I had to do is crank on it hard to smash it closed again!
I almost started to flail I will have to admit.

haha. The 6 gallon buckets I use for beer fermenting have lids that dont seal well. So often times the airlock shows no activity. First time I used one of them kind, a quick peek though the airlock opening revealed a thick krausen (active yeast on top). So no worries. In general, with few exception, you give yeast a bucket full of sugars to chomp on and they'll be happier than a possum in the corncrib with the dog tied up.

[Xnerd]

It happened again! one of my identical carboys failed to start fermenting!
It had developed a small crack in the O-Ring. All I had to do is crank on it hard to smash it closed again!
I almost started to flail I will have to admit.

haha. The 6 gallon buckets I use for beer fermenting have lids that dont seal well. So often times the airlock shows no activity. First time I used one of them kind, a quick peek though the airlock opening revealed a thick krausen (active yeast on top). So no worries. In general, with few exception, you give yeast a bucket full of sugars to chomp on and they'll be happier than a possum in the corncrib with the dog tied up.

I think that I actually jumped to conclusions with the fix.
I went back down and it stopped bubbling again. I changed the lid out with a new one and it still wont bubble.
When I thought that I fixed it I might have actually just dislodged some bubbles clinging to the sides so it bubbled for a few minutes as a result.

Im just going to give it a few more hours.and check back.

its odd though I made sure to rack off both carboys even so as not to suck all of one from the grain bed.
same yeast same amount of grain everything same same same same.... very odd.
Both carboys were sanitized the same time drained aired out the same....

interesting.

[Xnerd]

Update.

Well waited another hour or two and it is fermenting slow now. but at least its starting.
I checked the PH and it is way way low now. I had it at almost 6 and 8 hours later its 4.3. maybe a little higher.

dont understand the mechanics there... I did not touch a thing.
Yeasts will never fail to baffle me. One the one hand last mash two carboys, one carboy was spraying airlock water out and foaming over while the other one just sat doing nothing.
This mashing, 14 hours after pitching and they are barley rolling.
every single thing done the same.

there is no telling i guess. The only thing different is this on is one the grain.
DO suspended solids casue slow yeast start ups?

[Jimbo]

You broke your promise.

[Xnerd]

No I didnt lol! I did not touch them at all other then to check their PH!

PH did change but they are both slowly rolling.

I have not interfered ~!!

[Jimbo]

/shaking head

For your next mash I want you to do a Triple Decoction mash. It will keep your fidgety ass happily busy and tangled for a while.

[Xnerd]

Ok so, I found a company in Detroit that is has appropriate containers.
they want 45 bucks for a 30 gallon one. I just need to get off my ass and drive there...

Ugg I hate Detroit!

Im almost willing to pay shipping just to NOT go there.
I was going to go the keg route but 15 gallons is probably too full with the grain and all.

[Jimbo]

I wish I could tell you where we got these 20 gallon jobs. It was a fluke pallet buy with some brew friends. try craigslist or ebay with the 'so many miles from zipcode' search

[Xnerd]

yeah 20 gallon would be absolutely ideal! just the right head space.

I have saw a few on Craigslist list but mostly 55 gallon ones. There is ONE in Tecumseh....

I hate ebay now... I used to be a big fan until companies took it over and charge 3 times what anything is worth.
I was looking for 2 inch copper the other day and found these asshats selling it for 2.50 an INCH!
good god you can go into any menards or lowes and by 10 feet for 75 bucks.
These people are insane!
I did see one guy sold a real nice stainless barrel for 109 dollars.
55 gallons for stainless steel barrel @ 18 gauge!

I should have jumped on it, but hesitated.

Ill keep looking..

[Jimbo]

50 gallon stainless??? Holy shit, I need that to build a boiler for my cider runs. 60 gallons of cider takes a damn long time 12 gallons at a time. Thank God it turns out great with a single run.

[Xnerd]

yeah 50 gallon.... the next cheapest that I have seen would be about $150... more common is $179.
Most of what I have seen is real thin stuff too. This was 18 gauge, and weighted 70+ lbs.

[Xnerd]

Oh I forgot to mention that I have a local malting house wanting to malt yellow corn for me.
The guys said it is something that he is interested in trying and that he is starting to source grain for it.

[Xnerd]

Ok so, I built my 15 gallon fermenter for all grain.
Its a simple 15.5 gallon stainless keg (purchased through a distributor as defective.)

Cut a nice round whole that a 10 inch pot lit fits in perfectly.
Cut a nice gasket that seals good. I will be using a glass slid fro the fermentation as I like to be able to see the goodies.
I have several lids that fit it like a glove.

At any rate, I started the mash this morning about 4 hours ago and its almost to malt temp now.
I used cracked corn that I ran through a crusher and got a bit finer results.

I am using the same grain bill indicated in this thread but for some reason this time it is like thick porridge!
I raised the the temps a bit as prior to this I was using like a corn meal consistency, and now its a bit coarser crush.
The boiler/fermenter is insulated now so it has taken some extra time to cool.

I have read tons of posts regarding (corn mash thickness) and there are as many opinions as people!
Is there anything special that I need to do with this thick mash? I am fermenting on the grain, and was concerned about how thick it is
I realize that it will thin down quite a bit with the malt...

If there are any tricks to dealing with uber thick batches please let me know. (anyone)

As of now I am just considering this jello in my pot to be ideal

[Xnerd]

Yeah....

SO I get up this morning and the mash has cooled down to just about pitching temp.
It is 15 gallons of thick almost solid mush with 1 inch of amber liquid on top.

I dont know how to handle this.

[Dnderhead]

try stirring the liquid into the top 1/2 -3/4 of the solids.

[Xnerd]

I guess that I dont understand what that means Dnderhead.
I plan on fermenting on the grain but this is so thick i felt that I better check with yall first,

[Dnderhead]

you have liquid on top of solids,,mix some of the liquid into the top 1/2 in or so of the solids.
if this works then repeat.
i believe its so thick the enzymes are not getting to the starch.

[Xnerd]

Oh I see.

No its actually extremely sweet. 1.067!
Thats what I dont understand, I got a very high conversion rate.

So far I have done this recipe a half dozen times and I typically get about 6 gallons of separated liquid on top.
The conversion went well but its not separating at all. Like I said perhaps an inch of juice on top.

Perhaps I will wait two or three hours to see what happens

[Xnerd]

The only thing different that I did was use a coarser corn grind as the grinder that I had used prior to this had burned out.
AND as a result I adjusted the cook temp up and for a longer period of time to allow for this coarser grind.

The whole thing did gelatinize to a much greater extent than I have ever seen in my short carrier doing this.

I am wondering if I go ahead and pitch on this thick stuff will it help it settle out once the sugars are gone or will it be too big of a mess at the end to deal with.

[Uncle Jemima]

It could still be really sweat but have a lot of unconverted starches as well. With your hydrometer reading, the hydrometer doesn't know or care if its being floated by sugar or starch. It's a good sign that its sweet but if you didn't stir occasionally during the mash after you added your malt. I'm guessing it's like Dndr said and the enzymes may have had a hard time getting around in there to get at all the starches. Did you try an iodine test?

[Xnerd]

I stirred every 10 to 15 minutes for over 2 hours.
I took the hydrometer reading from the clear liquid. I know that there can still be starches in it but Im guessing not,
This is almost a sweet as a good sugar wash.

Its converted and converted well.
I cant explain why its so thick.

it has not settled out any more since i first checked,

[Xnerd]

past starch test.

Light red.

I m just going to go ahead and ferment in a couple hours if I don't hear anything different.I stirred it up and it is liquid enough for the yeasts to get around.

Thanks for the help as always.

[Xnerd]

Ok so I stirred it down as was suggested and passed to the low end of pitching temp for us-02.
OG 1.070 on the nose. that is only 0.009 from total conversion so I can not complain. from what I have read that is damn good.

I tested a few drops from my hydrometer cylinder again with iodine. still pink to light red.
The wash is the consistency of thin oatmeal now and I just pitched my yeast.

My hope is that once all of the sugars are digested the mash will be much thinner and cause better separation.
I never expected such a dramatic difference just by using a little more heat.

Perhaps I miss-measured my grain? at this point who knows.

The only thing that I do no for certain is that there is 11 gallons of water and a whole bunch of sugars in there.

Good deal

[Xnerd]

The yeast seem happy after just a few hours.
The Keg looks fuller then it really is.. there is a good 5 inches of head space. It must be an artifact of the camera
I am not even putting an airlock on this as the pot lid fits tight and snug.
Not air tight but snug.

I have read people using cheese cloth and towels so I think a sanitized glass lid should be good
It will keep me from worry about how fast or slow its bubbling

By the way, I whole batch did thin out after a great deal of time. It had to get to a very low temp to settle out.
I am thinking that maybe with the higher sugar content more was suspended? Dont know just a guess. but at any rate its thin like watery milk now.
Despite the fact that I had issue with this, it was still 100 times easier then messing with carboys for sure.

Im glad that I stirred it down and waited some more (thanks Dnderhead)
It did not seem to increase the SG but it did something. You mentioned about the enzymes that attack the protein.... maybe that was it.