Problem with my wash

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Froggy
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Problem with my wash

Post by Froggy »

Hi Guys,

I recently mixed up 4 buckets of sugar wash and within a few days I noticed they all started to smell a bit funny, kind of vinegary. I knew right then something was wrong, but I ran with them anyway just to see the outcome and learn a few things.
Each bucket was 8kg sugar and 25L water.

I got around to stilling them this weekend and I'm not really sure what to think of the outcome.

Out of each distillation I did, I only got about 1.5L of 88% clean spirit. I haven't tasted this spirit as yet, but it smells and feels good.

Typically out of a 8kg sugar wash I would get roughly 3L of 88% clean spirit.

So obviously something went wrong with my buckets of wash but I'm not exactly sure what, however I do have a theory.
I always make sure to wash and sanitise all my fermenting utensils, buckets etc, but I guess it could be possible that I missed something on one of the items.
Probably my biggest mistake is using my stirring spoon in all buckets without washing it between each. So..could it be possible that one of the buckets had some nastys growing in it and when I stirred each bucket I have infected them all?

Also FYI, what I did do differently with these buckets of wash is, I desolved the sugar in hot water one afternoon and waited till the next afternoon to add the yeast . This was because it was taking ages for the water/sugar to cool down.


Anyway, I'm keen to read your thoughts. Thanks
Here froggy froggy..
Shane

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AfricaUnite
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Post by AfricaUnite »

What yeast are you using?

Did you taste or test (hydrometer) the mash before distilling it? (My thought being all the sugar didnt get fermented)

In grape winemaking if you leave the wine exposed to air, alcohol gets converted into acetic acid (vinigar). I have never found this to be the case with sugar/water mashes as long as I keep the lid and airlock on and keep it in a relativly cool place.
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Post by Rudi »

hey froggy I agree with AU did you leave it covered with air locks to cool ? I always try and check the specific gravity before and after you think the ferment is finished.Then I know how much of the sugar has fermented .Its a good practice to write down all the info ingedients ,temps ,times ,dates, how it went, what it smelt like, what it tastes like ,what the air temp was and anything else you think was relevent then you slowly build a reference book for futurebatches and trouble shooting
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Froggy
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Post by Froggy »

I'm using Willards 48hour yeast.

I didn't taste the wash but I did put the hydrometer in to see what was happening. The problem is and I will admit it, I dont know how to read my hydrometer.
Normally when I test my wash before I still it, the hydrometer reads in the red(wine) section above 1.000 however with these 4 buckets it was only reading in the green(beer) section below 1.000.

Usually when I chuck the yeast in, I leave the lid just sitting on loosely for the first day because I found it to gas like crazy at the start. Should I not do this?
Here froggy froggy..
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Froggy
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Post by Froggy »

You know, I cant really remember if I had the lids with air locks fitted when the water/sugar was cooling. I will have to make sure next time to have the lids on.

What should a good wash taste like once it has finished fermenting anyway?
Here froggy froggy..
Shane

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Uncle Remus
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Post by Uncle Remus »

Any wash I ever make is sourish tasting when it is done fermenting. I think your probably okay.
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AfricaUnite
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Post by AfricaUnite »

Froggy a hydrometer that reads at or below 1.000 means there is no sugar left in the wash. This means that either #1- You didnt put any sugar in or #2-All the sugar has been converted to alcohol.

If you read that the hydrometer is still in the wine section before distilling that means that there is sugar left and your not going to get nearly as much hooch.

Its good practice to put the hydrometer in once the wash has cooled and before you add your yeast. This gives you a starting point so you know how much potential alcohol you have comming.

Once the bubbling slows considerably or stops it is good to check again. If it reads below 1.000 your in business. If it reads above 1.000 you still have sugar left.

I hope this is clear, if not ask.
Last edited by AfricaUnite on Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
birdwatcher
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Problem with my wash

Post by birdwatcher »

Froggy wrote:You know, I cant really remember if I had the lids with air locks fitted when the water/sugar was cooling. I will have to make sure next time to have the lids on.

What should a good wash taste like once it has finished fermenting anyway?
Hi,

Your sugar wash is simply sugar wine. Keep your equipment sterilized. You are using too much sugar for a 23 liter wash.


Get someone to show you how to use your hydrometer. You're dead in the water without this knowledge.

You will need approx 5 Kg Sugar per 23 liter carboy of wash. I would make a minimum of 46-50 liters per batch.

In your primary fermenter; I use a Rubbermaid white storage container with lid. For a 23 liter wash:

Start with 15 liters of water 85C, add one cup tomato paste, juice 1 lemon stir in about 4 Kg sugar. Take a SG reading. Carefully add water and sugar to a total of 23 liters with initial SG reading of 1.09. Add 75 grams regular bakers yeast.

Keep the temperature between 80-85C at all times. Stir daily. Take SG reading daily. Take notes.

With this amount of yeast, I never worry about air locks for the first three days. After three days syphon into an airlocked 23 liter carboy. Check SG
daily until you get a reading of .995. This will take 7-8 days. Gently stir/shake daily.

Heat control: Make a box out of 2" Styrofoam insulation large enough to cover Pail/carboy. Through the lid, dangle a light bulb, size depending on your room temperature.

Read information available on this site. If you have questions re the above ask.

Good luck.

G
My sugar wash for ethanol is under the Tried and true recipes forum.
Grayson_Stewart
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Re: Problem with my wash

Post by Grayson_Stewart »

Keep the temperature between 80-85C at all times. Stir daily. Take SG reading daily. Take notes.
I think you meant 80-85 F didn't you?
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birdwatcher
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Re: Problem with my wash

Post by birdwatcher »

Grayson_Stewart wrote:
Keep the temperature between 80-85C at all times. Stir daily. Take SG reading daily. Take notes.
I think you meant 80-85 F didn't you?
My God! Sorry, that should have read 30-35C. Thanks for the correction.
I will send Froggy a PM.

G
My sugar wash for ethanol is under the Tried and true recipes forum.
Ricky
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Post by Ricky »

froggy sounds like you need a hydrometer like mine. it is idiot proof. no offense intended. i add sugar until it says 10%. i ferment until it says 0%. this gives me 10% wash. no thinking on my part just a little math. works great.
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Post by knuklehead »

Birdwatcher, the advise you gave is in regards to using bakers yeast but is not advise that should be followed using turbo yeast. Turbo yeast can handle that much sugar, in fact I use 8.5KG in a 25 liter wash. If you insulate a fermentor running on turbo yeast it will over heat and the yeast will die. If you shake a fermentor running on turbo's in the first few days you will die when your wife finds the mess you made :D . Lastly and this may be only my opinion but once I seal a fermentor I don't open it until I'm ready to distill it. Opening it daily to check the SG doesn't make sense to me because if the wash is fermenting the CO2 gas bubbles will effect the hydrometer and give you and inaccurate reading anyhow. The only time you will get an accurate reading is at the start before the yeast is added and at the end once the yeast has settled. I keep the lid on to keep infection out, never had a problem. I do however shake the gas out of my turbo's once bubbling has stopped.
One more thing, turbo's don't need any added nutrient. It's all in the yeast packet.
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Froggy
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Post by Froggy »

Any wash I ever make is sourish tasting when it is done fermenting. I think your probably okay.
I'll make sure next time to taste the wash once I think its finished fermenting. Something else to learn.
Froggy a hydrometer that reads at or below 1.000 means there is no sugar left in the wash. This means that either #1- You didnt put any sugar in or #2-All the sugar has been converted to alcohol.

If you read that the hydrometer is still in the wine section before distilling that means that there is sugar left and your not going to get nearly as much hooch.

Its good practice to put the hydrometer in once the wash has cooled and before you add your yeast. This gives you a starting point so you know how much potential alcohol you have comming.

Once the bubbling slows considerably or stops it is good to check again. If it reads below 1.000 your in business. If it reads above 1.000 you still have sugar left.

I hope this is clear, if not ask.
AfricaUnite, Just for the record, I really did put sugar in the wash :D
If I put the hydrometer in the wash once it has stopped bubbling and it reads above 1.000, is there anything I can do to get it to finish fermenting the sugar? Add more yeast?

When I get around to doing my next bucket of wash I’ll be sure to check with the hydrometer before I add the yeast. Be warned I’ll probably be asking more questions after this.
Hi,

Your sugar wash is simply sugar wine. Keep your equipment sterilized. You are using too much sugar for a 23 liter wash.


Get someone to show you how to use your hydrometer. You're dead in the water without this knowledge.

You will need approx 5 Kg Sugar per 23 liter carboy of wash. I would make a minimum of 46-50 liters per batch.

In your primary fermenter; I use a Rubbermaid white storage container with lid. For a 23 liter wash:

Start with 15 liters of water 85C, add one cup tomato paste, juice 1 lemon stir in about 4 Kg sugar. Take a SG reading. Carefully add water and sugar to a total of 23 liters with initial SG reading of 1.09. Add 75 grams regular bakers yeast.

Keep the temperature between 80-85C at all times. Stir daily. Take SG reading daily. Take notes.

With this amount of yeast, I never worry about air locks for the first three days. After three days syphon into an airlocked 23 liter carboy. Check SG
daily until you get a reading of .995. This will take 7-8 days. Gently stir/shake daily.

Heat control: Make a box out of 2" Styrofoam insulation large enough to cover Pail/carboy. Through the lid, dangle a light bulb, size depending on your room temperature.

Read information available on this site. If you have questions re the above ask.

Good luck.

G
When I do my next batches of wash, I’ll be using dextrose. Do you think I would be ok dividing the 25kg bag into four giving me 6.25kg per 25L bucket?

Once I have dissolved the sugar in the water, I wait for the temp to drop below 30C before I add the yeast. If I add the yeast before it cools down enough the wash is going to get too warm and most likely kill the yeast.
Where I live it’s common for the temperature outside to reach 34C so I need to do all I can to keep the wash cool.

At the moment I am using packets of yeast from the brew shop. Doing this I don’t have to worry about adding nutrients etc plus they are pretty cheap anyway.
Later on if I find out that using bakers yeast produces a better product, I might switch over then.
froggy sounds like you need a hydrometer like mine. it is idiot proof. no offense intended. i add sugar until it says 10%. i ferment until it says 0%. this gives me 10% wash. no thinking on my part just a little math. works great.
Ricky, I think its worth learning how to read the hydrometer. It cant be that hard anyway, Since starting this thread I have already learnt a few things about the.

Does anyone know of a good reference to hydrometers? Like how to read them and about the terminology etc?


Thanks guys, I appreciate the time you have taken to help me out.
Here froggy froggy..
Shane

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The Compleat Distiller
Making Pure Corn Whiskey
birdwatcher
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Problem with my wash

Post by birdwatcher »

Hi Dane,

My interest is producing 95% ethanol as quickly as possible in the most economical manner.

My responce is, why use 8 lbs. of sugar for a 25 liter, when you can use 5 lbs.

Bakers yeast is less expensive than turbo yeast and the end result is exactly the same i.e. 95% ethanol.

Tomato paste is inexpensive.

I use a sterilized gravy baster to extract product from my carboys to take readings mainly to confirm the rate of fermentation. Simply my preference with no problems.

Froggy:

If your outside temperature is 34C I would definately use sugar and bakers yeast as suggested in my original message. Bakers yeast will handle this temperature. It is simply the least expensive way to go if your aim is to produce 95% ethanol.

Surely the proprietor of any wine making shop will show you how to read your hydrometer. Read this book. http://www.gin-vodka.com/making-gin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cheers,

G
My sugar wash for ethanol is under the Tried and true recipes forum.
AfricaUnite
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Post by AfricaUnite »

[quote="Froggy"]
is there anything I can do to get it to finish fermenting the sugar? Add more yeast? [endquote]

It depends, what is the temperature of the wash/air around the wash?

-Too low temperatures cause yeast to stop functioning

How much sugar did you initally use?

- Yeast can only convert so much sugar into alcohol, at a point (depending on the yeast strain) the yeast can no longer function in such a high alcohol enviroment. The solution would be to add a strain of yeast that is capable of fermenting at higher alcohol levels.

Stuck fermentations are a pain to deal with but I believe those two items above are the most common reasons wash's get stuck. The best is to invest the time to ensure it dosent happen to you by keeping consistant temperatures and using appropriate sugar volumes for the yeast you use.

In reference to hydrometers, im surprised yours didnt come with a paper on how to use them all the ones I buy have one. (I break them all the time, in fact i stepped on one this week)

a good tutorial can be found here

http://www.grapestompers.com/articles/h ... er_use.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Question for you Froggy, you say you buy your yeast from the home brew shop, what is the make and size of the yeast? Any yeast I buy from homebrew shops is just yeast and no nutrient. I mail order my turbo yeast.
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Post by Froggy »

The tempreture of the wash sits pretty constant at 28c.
I started with 8kg sugar like I normally do and I was using the same yeast.

I cant remember the exact yeast and I dont have any left to look at. I think it was Samuel Willards 48hr.

Using the exact same amount of sugar and same yeast has worked for me in the past. This is why I don't really understand what has happened this time.

I have 2 hydrometers that I bought and neither of them came with instructions. I'll have a read of the link you provided and see what I can learn.

Thanks mate
Here froggy froggy..
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hornedrhodent
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Post by hornedrhodent »

="Froggy"
The tempreture of the wash sits pretty constant at 28c.
I started with 8kg sugar like I normally do and I was using the same yeast.

I cant remember the exact yeast and I dont have any left to look at. I think it was Samuel Willards 48hr.

Using the exact same amount of sugar and same yeast has worked for me in the past. This is why I don't really understand what has happened this time.


Thanks mate


I get the impression you're using a turbo a bit at a time like normal yeast - you're supposed to use the whole bag for one wash. The packet contains the yeast , nutrients and acid to give you the right conditions to ferment pure sugar. Perhaps the contents of the packet stratified itself by size or density and you used all the yeast in your previous runs and had only DAP or Citric acid for your last batch? Or even if yeast was there the balance of nutrient and acid was wrong?
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Post by Froggy »

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I add one full bag of yeast in each bucket of wash and then stir like crazy before putting the lid/air lock on.
Here froggy froggy..
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Post by Froggy »

Hi guys,

Thought I would let you know exactly what yeast I have been using. Its called Samuel Willard's Original. 48 hour Temperature Tolerant Yeast. Specially formulated for Australian conditions.
There's no mention on the packet about being a turbo, so I don't know if it is or not :?

I'm just in the process of getting another wash together. I have dissolved 6.2Kg of dex in some hot water and I'm just waiting for it to cool a little before I top up with cool water.
I'll check the SG before adding the yeast and I'll post the reading here.
Here froggy froggy..
Shane

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Froggy
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Post by Froggy »

Ok, I have just checked the SG and tossed in the yeast.

Temperature was about 28C and the SG was 1.102 which if I understand this has the potential of just under 14%.
Do I have to somehow adjust these figures against the temp?
Here froggy froggy..
Shane

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Making Pure Corn Whiskey
knuklehead
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Post by knuklehead »

Yes you do have to do a temperature correction. What is your hydrometer calibrated at? For 20C:

10C -0.002
15C -0.001
20C None
25C +0.001
30C +0.003
35C +0.004
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
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