What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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spiff
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What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

Newbie here.. only got a few runs under my belt.. but I'm already seeing limitations to my 2 bucket fermentation rotation.. at the rate I'm going of a run a week, it'll be over a month before I even get my first real end result. (4 stripping then the spirit) So I ordered more buckets so now I have 6 fermenters going. Seeing six buckets bubbling away seems like a lot, but not when I think about the timing convenience it'll give me. I read that the wash can sit for a very long time so this seem like the way to go so I can make a run when I feel like it.

And this is just all for one recipe.. I couldn't imagine trying to create more than one recipe at a time.. I'm picturing people with a whole room of fermenters going to do something like that.

I'm just curious what most people do.
Last edited by spiff on Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by UnSub »

My "plan" (because I'm new also), is to do a large wash (40gallonish), rack into 5g buckets. That way I can run another recipe if I'd like while I do my stripping and spirit runs. I got 45 buckets for $20 from a local chocolate company. I'll have to see how it works though:)

I'll be running a 3" boka so my requirements may be different than yours.

I'm also interested in how others schedule their stuff


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spiff
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

Ah, nice. That sounds ideal having a giant container to do a volume like that. I wish I had that kind space. If I read your reply a month ago I would be thinking this dude is a hardcore stiller. But now I'm starting to think that a setup like yours might be normal to be doing this at all.
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

So, just curious, how many of your 45 bucket to you have going at once?
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

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Zero.:)

Still ironing out temp controls for the mash. Should be starting a Birdwatchers wash by next week though:)


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NZChris
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by NZChris »

After a break;

Start the next generation with frozen backset from the last run; 5 gallons
Strip
Use the backset to start the next generation; 20 gallons in one fermenter
Four strips
Use the backset from the first strip to start the next 20 gallon generation, or freeze some backset for the next run in a year or two.
Spirit run
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by midlife-u-turn »

Why limit yourself to buckets? How big is your still?
I have a 13 gallon still and use 13 gallon fermenters. I aim for around 11 gallons of finished mash and then secondary rack it to two carboys. On all grain runs I can put 11 gallons in my 13 gallon still without much concern for puking. I can do a strip run and have a second batch fermenting on the yeast bed of the first. Back to back ferments and stripping runs gives one spirit run and a manageable amount to work with.
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

Thanks for the replies.. its interesting to see the different ways of doing things.

I'm using 6 gallon buckets because it just seemed to make sense for the size of my 8 gallon boiler. Plus they're manageable in size and I already had a couple from my brewing days so I figured I would continue to work in the increments I was used to. I could still move a 40+ gallon barrel around but I'm guessing that you have to use pumps or something when you're needing to pour it out into something. But scaling up to something like that would require a total overhaul.. now I can use 2 5 gallon pots to boil the water I need.. getting a 40 or bigger going seems like it might be just as troublesome if not more as far as logistics go. At least for me. Otherwise I would be spending most the day boiling water in 2 pot batches and waiting for them to cool and repeating 8 times.. that actually would take more than a day. My pots take about 14 hours to cool down to a usable 90.

I like the idea of freezing the dregs. It sounds handy, I'm out of yeast as we speak. Is there any science to equating the amount of dregs to the call for fresh DADY in a recipe?
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by UnSub »

I agree with the cumbersome notion of a 55g barrel. Because I'm using an electric 15.5 keg, my plan is to actually use the boiler to heat the water for the melt. I believe that this will make it economical and productive. After the wash clears, it can be siphoned/racked into the buckets and kept cool for 3 strip runs. I don't want to put a hole in the barrel because ultimately, that is creating the weakest link so a pump will be require unless I keep the barrel elevated the height of a barrel (roughly). That means my boiler would have to be operated above the 40g mark of the barrel. Logistics really suck! Not to mention the keg and boka stack are about 8' total. Basement operation isn't happening... I have an inkbird temp control for the wash that operates a 300w aquarium heater and a box fan. I'll see how well this setup works very soon.


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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

Yeah, everything seems to be a trade off. So for your heating.. are you talking about using your 15.5 pot to do the boiling or are you putting the heating element from it in the barrel? That sounds ideal if you can heat it right in the barrel, a sweet advantage of the removable heating element. Otherwise I guess you're making back to back boiling runs to fill your barrel. So the hole you're talking about would be for the element? How about just dangling it, leaving it suspended off the bottom of the barrel.. too dangerous?
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

I was thinking if that's the case, what about using some sort of safety cage for the element? I have something similar in my giant aquarium where I use a 1300 Watt pond heater.. its in a plastic cage that keeps it at least 3 inches from anything. You could build something out of meta to do the same and then it would be safe I think.
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by npstephe »

I have two 12-Gallon fermenters and two 25-Gallon fermentors. I do mostly all grain mashes now and ferment on the grain in the big barrels and rack off wash to the smaller ones as a secondary. I use a 15.5 gallon keg for my Electric pot still with a 5500W element. This has worked great so far! the 25 gallon fermenters hold a 13 gallon ferment and grain volume nicely with head space. Two ~11-12 stripping runs usually yield enough for the spirit run. Works out perfectly.
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by UnSub »

My idea is to put the boiler above the barrel, heat the water and the open the boiler drain, draining into the barrel. I'm not keen on putting an element inside a plastic drum really. I suppose a submersible element could be used but I still worry that would create hot spots. You only need enough hot water to dissolve the sugar then use tap water to temper it down to pitching temps.

The hole I was talking about would be for a drain (but same would apply with a heating element). There are options for bulkhead fittings but I don't (personally) believe any of those options lessen the likelihood of barrel failure- they pretty much insure where the failure will be. In all seriousness, I could use a pump and just cycle the water through the boiler and the barrel until the full amount I desire is at the temp I desire...


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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

That sounds like a sweet setup NP.. I was scoping the electric options hard myself.. but the 240v controllers were ridiculously overpriced and I would have had to mess around with finding a nema plug converter from 15 to 20amp.. was just a can of worms. In hind sight I'm glad I opted to use my stove.

Un..ah, gotcha.. didn't know the barrel was plastic.. yeah, probably wouldn't want to boil anything in plastic.

So you're heating only to dissolve? What about the whole inverting of the sugar thing? I thought you needed to simmer a bit for that..
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npstephe
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by npstephe »

spiff wrote:That sounds like a sweet setup NP.. I was scoping the electric options hard myself.. but the 240v controllers were ridiculously overpriced and I would have had to mess around with finding a nema plug converter from 15 to 20amp.. was just a can of worms. In hind sight I'm glad I opted to use my stove.

Un..ah, gotcha.. didn't know the barrel was plastic.. yeah, probably wouldn't want to boil anything in plastic.

So you're heating only to dissolve? What about the whole inverting of the sugar thing? I thought you needed to simmer a bit for that..
Thank ya. Electric is the way to go. I built my controller following Jimbo's Electric conversion thread. It works well. Then I found this:

http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-co ... r-kit.html

Seems a reasonable price.

I installed a separate circuit with its own 30A breaker in my garage that I only use with the still. It makes for a quick way to cut the power just in case.
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by UnSub »

I figure I'll be able to invert the sugar and add that to the heated water. I'm not sure what mix of cold and hot I will need but I'm assuming that if I just invert and finish fill with tap water, it'll end up too cool to pitch (?). Like I said- I'll find out soon enough about how hot/cold things end up! Lol


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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

Nice! i like the price on that kit.
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

UnSub wrote:I figure I'll be able to invert the sugar and add that to the heated water. I'm not sure what mix of cold and hot I will need but I'm assuming that if I just invert and finish fill with tap water, it'll end up too cool to pitch (?). Like I said- I'll find out soon enough about how hot/cold things end up! Lol


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I'm wondering how necessary it is too. I'm in the habit of doing it from brewing days.. from what i read the best case scenario is that things might take longer.. worst case you get one of several types of imbalance that throws the wash off. I'll probably keep boiling.. I hate the idea of waiting a week to find out the wash crashed.
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What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by UnSub »

(If I understand you correctly...)
Are you actually boiling ALL of your water to insure it doesn't get an infection (either via water or to sanitize the container)? Keep in mind that unless you have reason to suspect you have unhealthy water, I don't think it's really required. Boiling water also removes the oxygen, making it less suitable for yeast reproduction (if my understanding is correct)


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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by NZChris »

I dump the hot backset straight onto the sugar and let it sit for a while for conversion, add aerated water to reach my desired SG, move the aerator to the wash, adjust pH if necessary, wait until the temperature is good for my yeast, then put it back into the fermenter with the new bill, clam shells, etc..
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Re: What kind of rotation do you guys use?

Post by spiff »

I only boil what I need to dissolve whatever I'm using.. and then will let simmer for about 10min in what I thought was good to allow it to invert. I like to have a bit more water available to dump in after the boil to help cool it off faster.
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