Stuck/Slow Ferment on a TPW/Birdwatchers style wash?

[joeymac]

So I pitched my yeast onto about 22 gallons of wash last Saturday and the whole ferment is coming up on day 7 today. I'm doing 4 buckets of wash with about 5.5 gallons in each. I'm trying something new... sort of a birdwatcher's style TPW that will make about 24 gallons at 14% potential alcohol. My plan was to use a clean fermenting high alcohol tolerant yeast (Lalvin EC-1118 instead of baker yeast), increase the nutrient amounts a little bit because I'll be using more sugar, and then I was going to split up the sugar additions to limit stress on the yeast (adding 2/3 of the sugar at the start and the remaining 1/3 of the sugar again once SG dropped below 1.020). The only real change from birdwatchers TPW is the addition of the Equate multivitamins to add some B and other vitamins. I've done some Hybrid MUM washes and other sugar washes in the past using these multivitamins without ill effect.

The SG of each bucket when I pitched the yeast was 1.071 and only 24 hours later the SG was around 1.064 in each bucket. I felt like it was all going well and things were bubbling and fizzing vigorously. I had to go out of town for a few days, but the temperatures would have been anywhere around 71-80F (22-27C) depending on time of day and yeast activity. When I got back home a few days later the SG was still only about 1.030-1.043 depending on which bucket I tested and bubbling on all airlocks was very very slow. So this is 6 days after pitching. I measured the pH of the buckets using some test strips and I'm showing a pH of 3-4 for all the buckets. As a comparison my tap water (through a water softener) shows a pH of 7.5-8 and my RO filtered water shows about 6.5 pH. So it looks like the test strips are accurate.

Why might it be stuck or very slow at best? I was thinking I could do my second suger addition anyways today and see if things pick up. I do have a bottle calcium carbonate on hand if you all think I should bump the pH back up a few points. I'm not sure how much to add... however I would think it takes a good amount of CaCO3 to get 22 gallons of ~3.5 pH wash back up to 4.5-5.5 pH.

Here was my planned recipe and you can see it's basically a birdwatchers with a little more nutrient, more tolerant yeast, and I planned split up the sugar addition (all to help support more ABV%).

4 cups tomato paste
Juice 3 lemons
Approx. 48LB sugar
0.5 LB Fleischmann's Dry Yeast
3 tsp Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate)
3 Ground Up Equate Women's Multivitamins
20.5 Gal Water

Boil 3 gallons water in 6gal kettle
Dissolve 32LB sugar in 3 gal Hot water (Sugar only dissolved, not inverted)
Mix Tomato Paste, and Lemon Juice into 16 Gal water.
Add dissolved sugar, ground up multivitamins and 2 tsp epsom salts.
Wort should be 21.5 Gallons at 23-30 C with SG of approx 1.068-1.075
Pitch 225grams Fleischmann's Dry Yeast (I used 8 packets of EC-1118 which was rehydrated instead)
Stir and check temperature daily. Check SG. When SG reaches 1.025 add more sugar & nutrient:
Boil 1.5 gallons Water in 3 gallon pot
Dissolve 16LB Sugar and 1 tsp Epsom salts in 1.5 gal boiled water and let cool to <33C
Add sugar solution to wash and stir well.
Stir and check temperature daily. Check SG for completion.

[rad14701]

You can bump the pH up with the calcium carbonate and that's what I'd suggest first... Sugar washes are known to experience pH crashes... I have been adding crushed up egg shells in my washes...

As for the yeast, I have done modified Birdwatchers/TPW's with bakers yeast many times at 14% potential without issues... In fact, one of the washes I accidentally pushed to 19%+ was a Birdwatchers with Fleischmann's bakers yeast... Never underestimate modern day bakers yeast... It'll ferment far higher %ABV than you might think... I've done 14%, 2 pounds of sugar per gallon, for many years... Hundreds of ferments with only a random wash getting sluggish or stalling, but not nearly as many as one might expect... And I'm not even a sanitation freak... I just hot rinse my fermenters and maybe use a bottle brush in my glass carboys and call it good enough...

[joeymac]

Any idea about how much calcium carbonate needed to raise 22gal +1pH? I know that's a tough question to ask without knowing the buffering capacity of my water or wash... but any starting amounts based on my known ingredients?

How much eggshells are you adding and are there any concerns about crushed eggshells introducing salmonella or other infections?

[rad14701]

Any idea about how much calcium carbonate needed to raise 22gal +1pH? I know that's a tough question to ask without knowing the buffering capacity of my water or wash... but any starting amounts based on my known ingredients?

How much eggshells are you adding and are there any concerns about crushed eggshells introducing salmonella or other infections?

As for the eggshells, they were steamed/boiled while making hard boiled eggs... And you can nuke them in the microwave if you are worried about contamination, which I am not... I toss in 1/4 cup at a time in a 6.5 gallon carboy...

Most specifications for calcium carbonate are 1/2 teaspoon per gallon, per dosage, not to exceed 3.5 teaspoons per gallon overall... I would wait at least 30 minutes between doses... For your 22 gallons that would equate to ~1/4 cup per dose... Someone else may have a an alternate suggestion... Just be prepared for a violent reaction when added...

[joeymac]

Well crap. All I have is this little bottle of CaCO3 I got from the brew shop... probably not even 3/4 cup total.
Back to the brew shop.

[rad14701]

Well crap. All I have is this little bottle of CaCO3 I got from the brew shop... probably not even 3/4 cup total.
Back to the brew shop.

Give what you've got a go first... There are other options if incrementally adding what you have on hand doesn't do the trick...

[StillerBoy]

Most sugar wash will have a ph crash within the first 24 hours.. my washes start at a ph of 5.6, and 24 hours later the ph is down to around 3.2 -3.4.. it normally takes about 4 to 5 heaping teaspoon of calcium carbonate to bring the ph to about 4.4 -4.5.. I add 2 tsp, stir, check, add 2 more, check, then some more until I reach the level wanted.. then it pretty well stays there the rest of the way..

Mars

[shadylane]

Well crap. All I have is this little bottle of CaCO3 I got from the brew shop... probably not even 3/4 cup total.
Back to the brew shop.

Just a thought,
Since the CaCO3 is what you have.
Mix the 3/4 cup of CaCO3 with a quart or so of water.
Add the mixture to your sugar wash a little at a time.
You will need to wait before adding more measure the pH before adding more.
On your next ferment, have a 5 pound bag of crushed oyster shells/coral that is used as a chicken feed supplement.
A BIG handful is good for 22 gallons. Also I suspect the crushed oyster shells/coral gives the yeast nutrients to go with the pH control
Accurate measurements don't seem to be needed.

[Truckinbutch]

Well crap. All I have is this little bottle of CaCO3 I got from the brew shop... probably not even 3/4 cup total.
Back to the brew shop.

Just a thought,
Since the CaCO3 is what you have.
Mix the 3/4 cup of CaCO3 with a quart or so of water.
Add the mixture to your sugar wash a little at a time.
You will need to wait before adding more measure the pH before adding more.
On your next ferment, have a 5 pound bag of crushed oyster shells/coral that is used as a chicken feed supplement.
A BIG handful is good for 22 gallons. Also I suspect the crushed oyster shells/coral gives the yeast nutrients to go with the pH control
Accurate measurements don't seem to be needed.

Good advice except for the purchase quantity of crushed oyster shell . You can buy 50# of crushed shell at the feed store much cheaper than you can buy 5# at some boutique .

[GrassHopper]

Oyster shell, or Calcium carbonate is not an instant solution to a ph crash. Calcium is virtually insoluble in water. However it is soluble in an acid. That's why it is a good buffer, since it dissolves as the solution becomes more acid and keeps the ph in balance. A more instant solution to a ph crash is the addition of Potassium carbonate, which responds immediately, or potassium hydroxide. There are others which contain sodium, but sodium or sulfide bases are not typically recommended for raising the ph.
Get a step ahead of a potential problem by adding a handful of oyster shells to a wash and it will "buffer" the wash before it becomes a problem.

[shadylane]

Oyster shell, or Calcium carbonate is not an instant solution to a ph crash....Get a step ahead of a potential problem by adding a handful of oyster shells to a wash and it will "buffer" the wash before it becomes a problem..

[joeymac]

Good info, thanks all.

[joeymac]

Well, it took the whole 2oz bottle (just under 1/2 cup) to raise the PH from 3.5 up to 5 and then I proceeded with my second sugar addition with another teaspoon of Epsom Salts. So the total fermentables are 50LB sugar making up 25 gallons of wash. Yeasts are happily bubbling away at a steady pace again and hopefully this ferment finishes out by next weekend.

What's a good source for crushed eggshell or oyster shells? I can get it from the brewshop for only $3/pound, but I'm sure it's cheaper elsewhere and I like the earthy natural approach when it comes to brewing.

[bitter]

feed stores will have the oyster shell. used for chickens so produce eggs with a thicker shell.

[shadylane]

@ joeymac
Yeast is cannibalistic
You can boil some yeast and feed it to the yeast that's doing the fermenting.
A yeast bomb is made with
Boiled yeast, Epsom salt, crushed vitamins, and DAP

[joeymac]

Speaking of using the old yeast in another ferment (yeast bomb)...

Whenever this current wash finishes and clears, I'm curious if I can just syphon off my finished wash from the trub/lees and then start a second fermentation by putting my new ingredients right into the buckets on top of the fresh lees/trub. I'm thinking there's got to be A TON of active yeast still in there.

my only concern is that I might get a bunch of off flavors and esters from any dead yeast autolysis going on and/or potential infection issues.

[NZChris]

Re-using the yeast and trub from a stuck/slow ferment is a good idea?