Diastatic / Yield Question

[fizzix]

Wrapping my mind around diastatic power. [Reference: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=54756]

Hypothetical:
Let's say my grain bill is 5lbs corn + 5lbs (diastatic power= 190) malt
(5lb malt) / (10lb total)= 1/2 .... then..... (1/2) x (DP190)= 95° .... well above the minimum 30° conversion requirement.

but let's say I replace the 5lbs of corn with 5lbs of ball bearings, my diastatic figure is still 95°but my yield is going to be radically different!

So my question is: Is there a gelatinization factor that can be applied so I can calculate that fermenting ball bearings is a bad idea?

[Swedish Pride]

get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

[fizzix]

I see that'll be next on my learning then.
The question stemmed from "what is too little (starch) grain to be mixed with a malt?"
And then the DP factor proved to be absolutely no help in answering that question.

So Brix. Heard of it. Now have to learn it. THANK YOU!

[still_stirrin]

Diastatic power isn’t the only calculation to consider. You also need to look at the points per pound per gallon (PPG) calculation as well.

Malted barley (6 row) has 30 to 35 PPG and corn has 33 to 39 PPG. Ball bearings have NO PPG. So, while you can add them to your mash, they won’t contribute any fermentation potential.

And, you need to double check your values for degrees Lintner. I think the value you quoted is extremely optimistic.
ss

[fizzix]

Thank you still_stirrin. I'm glad I asked. I was at the end of the road with no exit on this one.
Will look at PPG as well as Brix. Thanks!!

[durty_dunderpants]

"what is too little (starch) grain to be mixed with a malt?"

not sure i understand this question mate, there's no such thing as too little? you can have an all malt mash and all the fermentable sugars will come from the starches in that malt.
gelatinisation of the straches is done by heat, then conversion of starches to sugars by the enzymes in the malt.
barley and wheat can usually be gelatinised in the mash at normal mash temperatures, whereas corn usually needs to be cooked at higher temps so if you just add it to the mash you'll come up short.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Ball bearings not listed but much other good info:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 38&t=50131

[fizzix]

"what is too little (starch) grain to be mixed with a malt?"

not sure i understand this question mate, there's no such thing as too little? you can have an all malt mash and all the fermentable sugars will come from the starches in that malt.
gelatinisation of the straches is done by heat, then conversion of starches to sugars by the enzymes in the malt.
barley and wheat can usually be gelatinised in the mash at normal mash temperatures, whereas corn usually needs to be cooked at higher temps so if you just add it to the mash you'll come up short.

Yeah I was made hip to that last week when I questioned how an all malt (see: Jimbo's Single Malt) possibly worked.
I see the question we're discussing now was indeed faulty on my part. I was trying to shoehorn diastatic into a PPG argument. No go.

UPDATE: Here's a nice PPG malt chart for those as curious as me: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/wha ... alt-yields
....PPG examples on subsequent pages on same link.

MORE: This HD thread is helpful: http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... 83&t=68439

[Antler24]

get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

Hahaha think I just found my signature lol

[fizzix]

get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

Hahaha think I just found my signature lol

That's funny! I like funny.
Swede said in a PM that he was just being a friendly smart-ass. He had no idea that he inadvertently helped me out! (I had no idea what brix was.)