Average cracked corn yields with enzymes?

[raketemensch]

Understood, and respected. The enzymes are about more than just DP though, they go a long way toward making corn manageable.

[Samyguy]

I did this with enzymes, can't get any easier than this, worked great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnboJ3Kxeo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[butterpants]

Jimbo’s threads are great for learning AG, as are the Booner’s Casual All Corn and the Easy Large Batch Mashing threads. I’ve read through them many, many times before starting. It’s definitely worth checking out liquid enzymes as well.

Really no reason for it but enzymes don't have any appeal to me. I plan on doing bourbon mash bills mostly, with the odd rye, so id be using malt anyone. Also distillers malt is same price as 2 and 6 row here, so plenty of DP.

Without an initial high temp liquid amylase a corn mash is a big sticky pile of goo. Great if you're looking for a forearm workout, less great if you'd like everything mixed up. There's really no reason to shun emzymes unless you're a Luddite or working at one of those historical reenactment towns. Life is better now

[butterpants]

Jimbo’s threads are great for learning AG, as are the Booner’s Casual All Corn and the Easy Large Batch Mashing threads. I’ve read through them many, many times before starting. It’s definitely worth checking out liquid enzymes as well.

Really no reason for it but enzymes don't have any appeal to me. I plan on doing bourbon mash bills mostly, with the odd rye, so id be using malt anyone. Also distillers malt is same price as 2 and 6 row here, so plenty of DP.

Without an initial high temp liquid amylase a corn mash is a big sticky pile of goo. Great if you're looking for a forearm workout, less great if you'd like everything mixed up. There's really no reason to shun emzymes unless you're a Luddite or working at one of those historical reenactment towns. Life is better now

[Antler24]

Jimbo’s threads are great for learning AG, as are the Booner’s Casual All Corn and the Easy Large Batch Mashing threads. I’ve read through them many, many times before starting. It’s definitely worth checking out liquid enzymes as well.

Really no reason for it but enzymes don't have any appeal to me. I plan on doing bourbon mash bills mostly, with the odd rye, so id be using malt anyone. Also distillers malt is same price as 2 and 6 row here, so plenty of DP.

Without an initial high temp liquid amylase a corn mash is a big sticky pile of goo. Great if you're looking for a forearm workout, less great if you'd like everything mixed up. There's really no reason to shun emzymes unless you're a Luddite or working at one of those historical reenactment towns. Life is better now

I didn't shun them lol I have a drill for stirring. I know it'll probably go to goop, nothing a lb or 3 of malt won't fix lol

[bitter]

My last booners was 1.080 with 2.4 lbs of corn per gallon. It went down to 0.992 also

The finer the corn the easier it is to get the higher OG.

If you have a steam setup cooking and gelatinizing the corn makes a big difference in OG.

B

[butterpants]

Ran some mash experiments last night... trying to optimize time actually working on this.

Best result was @ 2.5 lbs corn per gallon I got to 1.070

I'm happy with the results but I definitely had to change up some of my initial procedures to get the jump.

Here's what got me there...

1) I milled the cracked corn. Nothing crazy, just a quick single pass through a roller mill. Big chunks are gone

2) Heat 10 gallons strike water to boiling inside of false bottom mash tun. Add 2 tbs gypsum.

3) Add 25# corn. Stir

4) Bring back to a boil.

5) Let steep 1 hour.

6) Add high temp emzymes, stir a bunch and insulate tun.

7) Let sit overnight (probably about 5 hours)

Add sacchrification enzymes (temp was 150F) along with 4 gallons of backset. Stir

9) Let sit another 4 hours uninsulated till temperature dropped to 100F. It was pretty cold out today.

10) Pump off wash to fermenter via valve n false bottom. About 9 gallons out and no issues with a very quick lauter.

11) Remove grain and squeeze wash out via mop bucket and paint strainer bag. (This got me another close to 2 gallons)

Total was like 15 hours (elapsed not working and without cleanup) for ~11 gallons @ 1.070 using 25# grain, tapwater, backset and some gypsum.

My other method only takes 6 hours (including cleanup) but yeilds 9 gallons @ 1.040 using a similar ingridents.

Pretty interesting.

[Tartuffe]

I yield 2.2 liters of pure alcohol equivalent out of an 18 lb grain bill. Works out to about 5.8% wash. Very simple technique although scaling up could be an issue.

I bring 6 gallons to rolling boil on propane in aluminum pot. Add 13.5 lbs of TSC cracked corn (i dont mill it any further) and start mixing with drill right away while burner is WAO until it is up close to boiling. Takes about 8 minutes. I put lid on and transfer the pot to cardboard box I insulated with blanket on top. I have a digital thermometer with probe that provides peace of mind. I leave it for 90 minutes, stirring for about 15 seconds with drill every 30 minutes. Temp drops from 205 to about 185 over the 90 minutes.

I dump 3.875 lbs milled rye, mix in, dump ice and water from freezer down to about 160 while mixing. Takes about 10 minutes. Add 3 tbsp amylase enzyme. Cool further to 150. Add 1.875 briess distillers malt. Add 3 more tbsp amylase for good measure, stir and cover.

I cover back up and leave for 3 hour, stirring every 45 minutes. Chill further to 100. Add 4 packets fleischmans that I start in bowls with granulated sugar an hour or so before pitching.

I put my mash in 2 glass wide mouth carboys, pitch yeast, quick drill stir and put airlock on. They are bubbling within 20 minutes and go for 8 days before I strain, rinse and distill. Done this process about 8 times now, no issues.

[AlChemE]

Butterpants, have you ever used Rice Hulls to aid in your lauter? I also use to use similar corn and was always disappointed in yield. Since corn has to be kept HOT to unpack and gelatinize the cornstarch, I've switched to using pre-gelatinized corn (it's an absolute time and mess saver, completely worth the extra $$). Using 2 lbs grain/gallon I'm able to get great yields. But this makes a 'mushy' mash. So what I've done is throw in plenty of rice hulls to 'fluff' the bed and allow the mash to lauter better. It doesn't affect the mash flavor at all.

[butterpants]

Butterpants, have you ever used Rice Hulls to aid in your lauter? I also use to use similar corn and was always disappointed in yield. Since corn has to be kept HOT to unpack and gelatinize the cornstarch, I've switched to using pre-gelatinized corn (it's an absolute time and mess saver, completely worth the extra $$). Using 2 lbs grain/gallon I'm able to get great yields. But this makes a 'mushy' mash. So what I've done is throw in plenty of rice hulls to 'fluff' the bed and allow the mash to lauter better. It doesn't affect the mash flavor at all.

Al I have indeed used rice hulls many a time. Quite useful. Before embarking on multiple corn mashes a year ago I sketched out 2 paths.... 1 utilizing feed corn and 1 with flaked maize. Pros, cons and cost to benefit.

With me doing anywhere between 20 and 30 lbs of grain per mash and a weekly mash for months at a time the cost savings with feed corn over flaked are hard to ignore. I'm a professional brewer and have a hookup for wholesale grain prices on flaked stuff and it's still too expensive to be viable in my opinion. Now if time was at more of a premium for me, I'd change up....but currently it's not.

---

25# Cracked Feed Corn - 5$
Enzymes - 2$

---

25# Flaked Maize - 25$ (50 retail)
5# Rice Hulls - 5$
Enzymes - 1$

---


I just have to get comfortable with integrating an overnight mash into my weekend hooch brew. I didn't want to do it but apparently it's true that time heals all wounds. Double the yield is worth it. Mashing with feed corn is just too cheap to ignore.... plus it lauters like a dream.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I did this with enzymes, can't get any easier than this, worked great!

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Biggest problem with this video is he measures the gravity of liquid while it still has grain and starches in suspension.

Is measurements are no good so we dont really know how well his protocol actually worked.

I actually asked Pint about it under his youtube video and he never bothered answering the question.

[cayars]

Not only that but it's hot as well and isn't temp adjusted.

I'm getting better results these days NOT using the external enzymes but using a different protocol only using malted 2 row. I'm using TSC cracked corn right out of the bag without further milling getting great results and easy to lauter as well.

The main problem I have with the TSC corn is lack of robust corn flavor. The corn flavor is a bit lacking for a bourbon. However, that makes it better for a base for vodka/gin/neutral IMHO OR when using say 5% heirloom corn in the mix.

[GreenEnvy22]

I've been using tsc cracked corn as well, following nchooch's recipe, and all thee batches have come out at about 1.04
That's with 2 hour simmer for the corn, 2-3 hour mash. No enzymes, just corn and malt (pilsner for first 2 batches, pale for 3rd, no differnce in SG.)
I'll try getting the corn ground a bit next time, or check around at local farms for other options.
I may try an overnight mash as well.
I've been pressing in my wine press after fermenting on the grains. Not sure how using cornmeal would affect that. The cracked corn and malt is super easy.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

My last batch was 14.4 gallons of water, 26 lbs of corn and 6 lbs of steam rolled oats, all ground to a coarse flour.
I hit 1.061.
According to brewers friend, that's close to 75% efficiency.

I'd really like to get to around 85-90%, but I just dont know if it's possible without homegrown mineral water.
I'm about to start experimenting with brewing salts again, ie, calcium ions.

[cayars]

My last batch was 14.4 gallons of water, 26 lbs of corn and 6 lbs of steam rolled oats, all ground to a coarse flour.
I hit 1.061.
According to brewers friend, that's close to 75% efficiency.

I'd really like to get to around 85-90%, but I just dont know if it's possible without homegrown mineral water.
I'm about to start experimenting with brewing salts again, ie, calcium ions.

I'm not sure how brewers friend does it's calculation but see if this makes you feel better.
Corn and oats have a PPG of 33.
You have 32 pounds of grain * 33 PPG = 1056 points
1056 / 14.4 (gallons) = 73.33 points per gallon
You ended up at 61.
61/73.33 = 0.8318 or 83% efficiency

Now I'm curious, what's the mineral water, brewing salts or calcium going to do for efficiency of mashing? I can understand fermenting but not why you'd consider them for changing your mashing? Or did you mean using those in your fermenting?

[thecroweater]

1.061 ain't bad, I visited a distillery down near Lewisburg/Maxwelton WV that got something like what your aiming for. From memory they ground to almost flour, mashed it and then hit it with enzymes that probably included glucoamylase

[Hillbilly Popstar]

My last batch was 14.4 gallons of water, 26 lbs of corn and 6 lbs of steam rolled oats, all ground to a coarse flour.
I hit 1.061.
According to brewers friend, that's close to 75% efficiency.

I'd really like to get to around 85-90%, but I just dont know if it's possible without homegrown mineral water.
I'm about to start experimenting with brewing salts again, ie, calcium ions.

I'm not sure how brewers friend does it's calculation but see if this makes you feel better.
Corn and oats have a PPG of 33.
You have 32 pounds of grain * 33 PPG = 1056 points
1056 / 14.4 (gallons) = 73.33 points per gallon
You ended up at 61.
61/73.33 = 0.8318 or 83% efficiency

Now I'm curious, what's the mineral water, brewing salts or calcium going to do for efficiency of mashing? I can understand fermenting but not why you'd consider them for changing your mashing? Or did you mean using those in your fermenting?

Check it out.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/


So, apparently enzymes work best in the presence of calcium ions and I think magnesium.
I dont know the exact chemistry, but it makes sense when you think about how the best likker is usually made near a source of good mineral laden spring water.
One of the old timers on here once said to me (might have been Truckin Butch) "dead water dont make good likker".
I've seen good results from experimenting with additions of calcium carbonate, calcium chloride, gypsum, and Epsom salts to the mash water. I'm about to venture into this practice again.