Les in the still

Production methods from starch to sugars.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Les in the still

Postby Texas Jim » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:19 pm

Is there a distilling section of the forum? I didn't see one, so I'll post this here -

Are there any issues (off flavors, etc) with having lees, (or is it trub?), get into the still when you transfer the beer to the still?

And, as an aside, I wonder how big distilleries rack off there fermenters and what do they do with the leees?

Thanks.
Texas Jim
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:52 am

Re: Les in the still

Postby fizzix » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:35 pm

You're bound to get some in the boiler. Where it's a problem is when you get lots of solids and they scorch either on the bottom or on your internal heater if you have one.
I just got done squeezing grain from 3 buckets through a mesh. Got all the big stuff, but all the corny milk and yeast most certainly got through.

Does it hurt flavor?
It's not beer brewing where you're gonna drink the wort in the boiler. All the good stuff will boil out for you to enjoy, and leave the acidic yuck behind.

Some guys here know how the big boys do it. It's all valves and magic as far as I know.
User avatar
fizzix
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2223
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: Les in the still

Postby kiwi Bruce » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:39 pm

I think this will depend on what your running...It's becoming apparent that if the yeast is not in the still, for a whisky or bourbon run that a lot of the flavor could be being lost...on a sugar wash for a vodka or gin base, it's probably not wanted.
I'm not insane...I just help out at the asylum when they're low on patients(1958 Goon Show)
User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
 
Posts: 1756
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Les in the still

Postby Texas Jim » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:45 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:I think this will depend on what your running...It's becoming apparent that if the yeast is not in the still, for a whisky or bourbon run that a lot of the flavor could be being lost...on a sugar wash for a vodka or gin base, it's probably not wanted.


Well, that has me spinning! I'm running an all grain bourbon - should I run out and dump the lees into the still?!
Texas Jim
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:52 am

Re: Les in the still

Postby fizzix » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:48 pm

Texas Jim wrote:Well, that has me spinning! I'm running an all grain bourbon - should I run out and dump the lees into the still?!

Run it through a fine collander or mesh. Won't hurt.
User avatar
fizzix
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2223
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: Les in the still

Postby kiwi Bruce » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:59 pm

The yeast and some of the other organisms are responsible for the ester and phenols we find in good bourbons and single malts. It's beginning to appear that these are "locked" in the yeast cells and released by boiling... I know the the Scotch distillers run with the lees...they have another name for them that alludes me for the moment...so you could put some back...BUT go slowly with the heat, it will increase the risk of foaming and as fizzix said of scorch.
I'm not insane...I just help out at the asylum when they're low on patients(1958 Goon Show)
User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
 
Posts: 1756
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Les in the still

Postby Texas Jim » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:36 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:The yeast and some of the other organisms are responsible for the ester and phenols we find in good bourbons and single malts. It's beginning to appear that these are "locked" in the yeast cells and released by boiling... I know the the Scotch distillers run with the lees...they have another name for them that alludes me for the moment...so you could put some back...BUT go slowly with the heat, it will increase the risk of foaming and as fizzix said of scorch.


Just in the yeast, or in the trub also? If I yeast wash, I wonder if I gain anything by throwing in the trub.
'
Thanks.
Texas Jim
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:52 am

Re: Les in the still

Postby kiwi Bruce » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:02 pm

If you fermented on the grains it's both, separate the grains as best you can. The grain remains are what will make it want to form I think, the rest, the yeasty friends are what gives the esters and phenols...now you could run this batch as a bench mark for your next run and leave the lees/trub out this time...this will also encourage you to put another batch down ASAP to make the comparison / and tell all of us how it went...just remember, this ain't nether brain science or rocket surgery...don't over think this. :lol:
I'm not insane...I just help out at the asylum when they're low on patients(1958 Goon Show)
User avatar
kiwi Bruce
Distiller
 
Posts: 1756
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Transplanted Kiwi living in the States

Re: Les in the still

Postby fizzix » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:19 pm

Wise words from Kiwi!
You're doing fine, Texas Jim, and you'll murder your brain with what-ifs if you let it bug you.
You have NOT screwed this up.
User avatar
fizzix
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2223
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: Les in the still

Postby Twisted Brick » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:25 pm

kiwi Bruce wrote:The yeast and some of the other organisms are responsible for the ester and phenols we find in good bourbons and single malts. It's beginning to appear that these are "locked" in the yeast cells and released by boiling...


Those words are music to my ears, Kiwi Bruce. I'm nearing the last ferment of my first AG bourbon, and was dismayed when my first ferment didn't clear worth a damn. This pic is over a week in the fridge and that was carefully strained through a BIAB. I mashed with corn I bought already ground (fine meal), and was equally surprised to find that even after a week the yeast did not flocculate, and stayed suspended, leaving no yeast cake.

I subsequently read that some stillers here haven't cleared a wash in 30 years so I ran mine full steam ahead. The pint of hearts I stole from my last strip knocked my socks off, so Texas Jim, just go for it. FWIW, I heated up my 11gallon boiler charge real slow, then blasted (40k btu NG) through my strip and there was no sign of foaming whatsoever in the 3" sightglass just above the top of the keg.
Attachments
Bourbon mash.JPG
IMG_8481.JPG
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”

- W.C. Fields
User avatar
Twisted Brick
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
Location: Craigh Na Dun

Re: Les in the still

Postby Texas Jim » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:35 pm

Well, I left it alone - the first drops are coming out now. I had to split the stripping run into two, so I think I'll add the lees to the second run and see what difference I can tell.

This is fun!
Texas Jim
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:52 am

Re: Les in the still

Postby fizzix » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Texas Jim wrote:This is fun!

It's a friggin' BLAST!
Hey now you'll get to tell us what you find. Good distilling to you Texas Jim.
User avatar
fizzix
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2223
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:08 pm


Return to Mashing and Fermenting



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ShineonCrazyDiamond and 4 guests