Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Production methods from starch to sugars.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby Burleman » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:44 pm

Hey Folks,
So the issue I’m having is that I did my calcs wrong (actually I used a bad app) and added what I fear might be too much sugar. Approximately 2.25 pounds per gallon which would yield %15.9 abv. It’s about a third stronger than I usually do so I’m concerned that I won’t get a complete ferment. Are my fears reasonable? I was thinking of using the backsets in my next wash to recover any unfermented sugars, but after reading through some threads I don’t think I’ll go that route. I like my spirits as neutral and clean as I can get them and using the backsets appears that it would add some off flavors that might be difficult to remove. My approach now will be to monitor the ferment closely for a consistent ph and adjust as needed. I’ll also add some nutrients, maybe tomato paste or something along those lines if it stalls. Has anyone fermented at this strength? Are there any pitfalls I’m not seeing that you think I might encounter? If you have any input or suggestions I’m all ears. Thanks. Cheers!
Burleman
Novice
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:58 pm

Burleman wrote:Hey Folks,
So the issue I’m having is that I did my calcs wrong (actually I used a bad app) and added what I fear might be too much sugar. Approximately 2.25 pounds per gallon which would yield %15.9 abv. It’s about a third stronger than I usually do so I’m concerned that I won’t get a complete ferment. Are my fears reasonable? I was thinking of using the backsets in my next wash to recover any unfermented sugars, but after reading through some threads I don’t think I’ll go that route. I like my spirits as neutral and clean as I can get them and using the backsets appears that it would add some off flavors that might be difficult to remove. My approach now will be to monitor the ferment closely for a consistent ph and adjust as needed. I’ll also add some nutrients, maybe tomato paste or something along those lines if it stalls. Has anyone fermented at this strength? Are there any pitfalls I’m not seeing that you think I might encounter? If you have any input or suggestions I’m all ears. Thanks. Cheers!


You could always split your ferment into 2 batches adding water as need to each batch to reduce the potential ABV to a desired level.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."
User avatar
RedwoodHillBilly
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby Pikey » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:59 pm

Depends on your yeast - a turbo can go that high and more. You are getting "Up there"

My rule of thumb comes from "First Steps in winemaking (CJJ Berry) who said 2.25 lb in the gallon will ferment to dryness, 2.5 lb will give you a medium wine and 3 lb a sweet wine when fermented right out.

However or gallons are 160 fl oz and I assume yours are 128. I would use 1.75 lb in 128 oz or possibly 2 lb at a push.

Yes I think you will heave suplus sugar. I have never had "Off-flavours" when making a sweet wine. However, if you are worried - Simples - add more water !

I don't think running a sweet wine will cause any issues and hell sugar is cheap enough !

[Edit SNAP RHB :) ]
Last edited by Pikey on Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pikey
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2185
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm
Location: At the edge of the Wild Wood

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby fizzix » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:59 pm

High ABV runs the risk of killing the yeast or at least stressing it to cause off flavors. Do you have another bucket maybe you can split this into?
Here's a Calculator (first one on page) to help with future calculations. Shoot for 6~8%.
That's like a pound or so per gallon.
User avatar
fizzix
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby Pikey » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:05 pm

fizzix wrote:High ABV runs the risk of killing the yeast or at least stressing it to cause off flavors..........


Do you think that is true fizzix ? - I know it is "forum dogma" here, but I have NEVER had off- flavours due to making a sweet wine and we learn as winemkers to "Rack the wine" so it doesn't sit on dead yeast, since yeast turns cannibalistic and "Autolyses" to produce "Off flavours" when that happens - Yet here - every other post says to use masses of dead yeast as a yeast nutrient !
Pikey
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2185
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm
Location: At the edge of the Wild Wood

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:10 pm

Pikey wrote:
fizzix wrote:High ABV runs the risk of killing the yeast or at least stressing it to cause off flavors..........


Do you think that is true fizzix ? - I know it is "forum dogma" here, but I have NEVER had off- flavours due to making a sweet wine and we learn as winemkers to "Rack the wine" so it doesn't sit on dead yeast, since yeast turns cannibalistic and "Autolyses" to produce "Off flavours" when that happens - Yet here - every other post says to use masses of dead yeast as a yeast nutrient !


I agree, Pikey. I leave my bourbon ferments for 2 weeks instead of 1 week after pitching. I believe that I get a better flavor by leaving the yeast to autolyse giving some beneficial esters when they die. I strip on the gran/trub. YMMV

Sorry to the OP for the thread derail.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."
User avatar
RedwoodHillBilly
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby fizzix » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:48 pm

Pikey wrote:
fizzix wrote:High ABV runs the risk of killing the yeast or at least stressing it to cause off flavors..........


Do you think that is true fizzix ? - I know it is "forum dogma" here, but I have NEVER had off- flavours due to making a sweet wine and we learn as winemkers to "Rack the wine" so it doesn't sit on dead yeast, since yeast turns cannibalistic and "Autolyses" to produce "Off flavours" when that happens - Yet here - every other post says to use masses of dead yeast as a yeast nutrient !

Hi Pikey. Oh I'm only going by what I've read here. When I was the Turbo King, I know that crap always tasted bad so it made sense when I'd read that stress caused the foulness.
If this is a wives' tale I'll certainly stop promoting it. I've just never seen an alternate discussion on the otherwise commonly held idea.
{I also apologize for the hijack}
User avatar
fizzix
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby Burleman » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Thanks everyone. I’m going to monitor it closely. If it stalls I’ll aerate it, add some nutrients, and adjust the ph as needed. If all else fails I’ll pitch some turbo yeast. I’m using the calculator on the HD page from here on out and keep it under 1.5 pounds per gallon moving forward. Thanks again everyone. I really appreciate the input.
Burleman
Novice
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby MoonBreath » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:59 pm

Ok here we go...
Never aerate AFTER pitching yeast, recipe for vinegar.
Higher abvs need to have good aeration BEFORE yeast pitch.
Also they like higher ambient temps (80-85°ish)..
Cover good, but don't seal. Monitor with temp gun or temp strips, you'll actually learn your temperature curve, when the temp peaks then returns to pitch temp remove cover check, degass ifn ready..Maybe get ya some distillers yeast for future stuff..
See what happens here now tho..
One bite at a time. :clap:
*Spend it all, Use it up, Wear it out*
Beware of sheet-sniffers and dime-droppers!
User avatar
MoonBreath
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2099
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:34 pm
Location: Horseshoe Bend, Ky.

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby Skipper1953 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:30 am

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:You could always split your ferment into 2 batches adding water as need to each batch to reduce the potential ABV to a desired level.


This seems to be the most sensible thing to do. All it would take is another bucket and some clean water. You have evidently had successful ferments in the past when starting with a lower SG (lower potential) so why not follow a course that will get you back to that lower SG?

While the diluted wash is fermenting, you can study/research what happens with higher sugar levels before you start next time and do it on purpose if you're so inclined.

Edit:
Here is a handy calculator that I have used for years.
winecalc.software.informer.com/2.3
"... I'm not here to "spoon feed" you..." Seriously? Then just put the damned spoon back in the drawer!
User avatar
Skipper1953
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:08 am
Location: USA

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby Hoosier Shine9 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:53 am

I have made an Apple Caramel Wine several times at 15.9%.
I used ec-1118 for the yeast
never a problem fermenting to dry.
I did have a stalling issue when I tried to push abv up to 18%. all I did was to recalculate what I needed to get the must back down to 15.9. separated into 2 carboys and added the needed Apple Juice to each get it back down. that broke the stall both carboys finished dry.....

good luck.
User avatar
Hoosier Shine9
Bootlegger
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:00 am
Location: central indiana

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby MoonBreath » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:06 pm

I wouldn't seperate it, ifn you haven't..
Don't upset it, won't get them perfectly even .
Then you be chasin both of em.
Its not that high it won't take off ifn you've done everything right..Not knowing amount of yeast pitched, water ph, sg's, and all the other variables makes it hard to say..Let us know.
*Spend it all, Use it up, Wear it out*
Beware of sheet-sniffers and dime-droppers!
User avatar
MoonBreath
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2099
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:34 pm
Location: Horseshoe Bend, Ky.

Re: Sugar wash at %15.9 abv

Postby Big Stogie » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:25 pm

Hoosier Shine9 wrote:I have made an Apple Caramel Wine several times at 15.9%.
I used ec-1118 for the yeast
never a problem fermenting to dry.

good luck.


This! EC-1188 or a Champagne yeast should get you done
Our work is nice cause we do it twice!!

Flute Journey viewtopic.php?f=17&t=69736
Big Stogie
Bootlegger
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:39 am


Return to Mashing and Fermenting



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests