Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
Moderator: Site Moderator
- corene1
- HD Distilling Goddess
- Posts: 3045
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:05 pm
- Location: The western Valley
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
Must be getting old, I didn't even notice it was an older thread brought back. Oh well ,always good to get more information out there. I learned a bit on pasteurization temps. Good info to know.
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
there ya go I feel the same way shady.shadylane wrote:It don't matter were the OP is now
It's about supplying info for folks that are searching for it
- Truckinbutch
- Angel's Share
- Posts: 8107
- Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:49 pm
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
That's why we stick around here . Helping others like others helped us . Where We Go One We Go All . TBshadylane wrote:It don't matter were the OP is now
It's about supplying info for folks that are searching for it
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
- Windy City
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1178
- Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:52 pm
- Location: Chicagoland
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
Have to agree with TB, AC Shady and Corene
Even though the post was old it ended with bad information.
Clearing up that info on gelatinization only helps those we keep telling to read read read when they do an HD Google search so they end up with the correct information
Even though the post was old it ended with bad information.
Clearing up that info on gelatinization only helps those we keep telling to read read read when they do an HD Google search so they end up with the correct information
The liver is evil and must be punished
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:22 am
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
I have made some nice bourbons but lately had the same problem you were having.
I'm not going to tell you that your receipe was off or you missed something, but I will say what worked for me.
To backtrack a little - I made my usual bourbon and the mash got infected, pukie as all hell.
So a few weeks later I tried again, this time soaking all buckets and tools in bleach/water, then StarSan.
It happened again.
Heck, that is too much work to go bad on me and so I went back to my favorite - rum.
Well damn if the rum didnt get infected! Never had that happen!
What turned the problem around was ditching all my 5gal buckets. Turns out they could never come perfectly clean and always had a faint smell of puke
no matter how clean they were.
Now I just use glass carboys and the problem is gone.
I'm not going to tell you that your receipe was off or you missed something, but I will say what worked for me.
To backtrack a little - I made my usual bourbon and the mash got infected, pukie as all hell.
So a few weeks later I tried again, this time soaking all buckets and tools in bleach/water, then StarSan.
It happened again.
Heck, that is too much work to go bad on me and so I went back to my favorite - rum.
Well damn if the rum didnt get infected! Never had that happen!
What turned the problem around was ditching all my 5gal buckets. Turns out they could never come perfectly clean and always had a faint smell of puke
no matter how clean they were.
Now I just use glass carboys and the problem is gone.
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
I think we lost the OP. Good info in this thread though. The recipe is for flaked corn. The guy was using cracked. He needed to cook. If he were using flaked, I think it would have worked out. But then, one of his posts said he got similar results from an all barley malt recipe.
- SwollenGoat23
- Site Donor
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:16 pm
- Location: South Louisiana
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
Wright you are shadylane. I've got a similar issue now and this info helps a ton.
Thanks to all for your input.
Thanks to all for your input.
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
Yep. Good info for me too. I didn't know the difference between flaked maize and cracked corn. I just assumed the former was a fancy term for the latter. This is why I like making rum over shine or "bourbon." So much less time spent in front of a hot propane burner stirring and stirring.
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
Thanks @shadylane. I’m just now reading this because of a similar issue and it’s helping a ton! Thanks everybody!!!
"Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough!"
-Mark Twain
-Mark Twain
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
This sounds like a Butyric acid infection. It’s a Bacterial Infection. Sanitation is key. Bacteria can hide in the smallest places even in scratches in a surface. Starsan is good but try changing it up by using something like iodaphore.
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
I remember a podcast I listened to a while back where a brewery tested different sanitizers. They tested ethanol, tri-san, and iodophore. They tested different lengths of contact time with each ranging from 30 seconds to 12 minutes then swabbed the surface and smeared the swab on an agar plate. Ethanol and tri-san pretty much killed everything even with the shorter than recommended contact time. Iodophore at 12 minutes contact time was still less effective than the others at 30 seconds. Starsan is not the same as tri-san, but if the tests showed anything, it's that iodophore is not a very effective product.
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
Nice tests. What concentration Iodophor did you use?
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
It wasn't me, it was a brewery. I don't remember the details of the concentrations other than they used the recommended and a few higher concentrations to see what they had to do to get decent results.
-
- Novice
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:23 pm
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
I know this is an old thread but as a pasteurizer I need to make a few corrections Legal vat pasteurization temp/time is 145 degrees for 30 minutes. This is what we do in these washes. the 161 for 15 seconds is only for HTST pasteurization high temp short time htst. this is a system where the milk is constantly moving through the system. after 17 years its sort of a sticking point with meHDNB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:00 am I gotta throw in with windy on this as well. charts be damned. you gotta cook corn. I have had 2 cracked corn failures with an infection at 1.05 by not exceeding 175* last year alone.
So not only do you need to cook it to release the starch, you have got to kill the bugs too.The pasteurization temp you see on charts for 165* for 15 seconds are for milk...which is relatively clean to start with, in sterile equipment and a different bacteria load than some shitty feed corn that laid in a field and got run through a combine that was never cleaned in it's life and off to a mill where again, nothing is ever cleaned.
when i do a big corn ferment there is usually a solid cup full of dirt (like as in earth) in the bottom of the fermenters when i clean it out.
lbs/gallon, grind. times, temps and PH with enzymes and yeast will get great yield...mess with the equation and you start to lose booze, the more you fuck with it the worse the yield.
Re: Failed Whiskey Mash - Everytime
Super valuable information. Thanks. The real take away of the thread for me is that gelatinization and pasteurization charts may not be saying what you think or hope they are, and don't take the place of real world experience.hopwhisperer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:40 pmI know this is an old thread but as a pasteurizer I need to make a few corrections Legal vat pasteurization temp/time is 145 degrees for 30 minutes. This is what we do in these washes. the 161 for 15 seconds is only for HTST pasteurization high temp short time htst. this is a system where the milk is constantly moving through the system. after 17 years its sort of a sticking point with meHDNB wrote: ↑Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:00 am I gotta throw in with windy on this as well. charts be damned. you gotta cook corn. I have had 2 cracked corn failures with an infection at 1.05 by not exceeding 175* last year alone.
So not only do you need to cook it to release the starch, you have got to kill the bugs too.The pasteurization temp you see on charts for 165* for 15 seconds are for milk...which is relatively clean to start with, in sterile equipment and a different bacteria load than some shitty feed corn that laid in a field and got run through a combine that was never cleaned in it's life and off to a mill where again, nothing is ever cleaned.
when i do a big corn ferment there is usually a solid cup full of dirt (like as in earth) in the bottom of the fermenters when i clean it out.
lbs/gallon, grind. times, temps and PH with enzymes and yeast will get great yield...mess with the equation and you start to lose booze, the more you fuck with it the worse the yield.
As far as butyric acid goes, one thing I learned doing kettle sour beers, is that the Clostridium bacteria that forms it doesn't like low ph. We'd adjust the kettle ph so the lactobacillus could thrive, but not the Clostridium. So if you have a healthy ferment where ph drops below 5 right off the bat, the puke aroma should be avoided even if your sanitization and pasteurization aren't perfect.