Help me troubleshoot my home malted barley mash.

[Fart Vader]

Ok, so I've done 3 mashes of my home malted barley.

Starting gravity is unknown because every sample I try to take is just too thick. I've taken out half a gallon to let it settle and get a reading but it's just a no go.
It's like a thick milkshake. My home malted wheat gives me a consistent SG of 1.08, so I'll assume I had 1.08 with the barley.
All three barley mashes never got below 1.015-1.016
I can get the wheat down to 1.01, no lower.

Protocol:
55lbs home malted barley (yea baby).
Oven roasted at 210F for 2-hrs (after dried enough to be crunchy, not to denature).
27gallons water.
About 200grams of baker's yeast.

Add barley to 80F hot water, constantly stirring with drywall paddle on drill.
Bring temperature up to 68C/148F (takes about an hour).
Hold for another 1hr at 68C/148F.
Bring the mash up to 95C/200F to kill any nasties that have ruined a previous batch.
Always stirring during the entire process.
Iodine test is great, full conversion.
Rapidly cool to 35C (1/2 hour)
5 minute 100% oxygen injection using sintered attachment, still stirring.
Pitch yeast on top, drop in aquarium heater, let 'er rip.

Goes gang busters for 4 days, temp stays around 35C, then seems to stall at 1.016 temp dropped steadily to current 19C . Been there for the last 4 days.
Tested pH and it's a happy 3.8

Any ideas?
Thanks

[HDNB]

my vote goes for some unfermentables from that 210* but i'm not sure what exactly you did there, not quite understanding that part of the process?
you went to 210 with dry malt for a bit of crystal effect or you cooked the mash in the oven at 210*?
either way that's my two cents.

dunno why it's thick to start either. i bin working single malt on the last five or so ferments. i had a bacterial stall at 1.022 and 1.045.

first one finished dry and the next two after a big sanitizing binge are looking good....point being i was at 2.5 lbs per gallon and they were not thick at all.

[Twisted Brick]

Since you have your wheat malting process down, its possible your barley stock is on the low end of fermentable starch. At full conversion your mash should be watery, not thick.

[Big Stogie]

According to those numbers you are getting 8.53% alcohol so that’s not bad most bread yeast seems to die off about 10% in my experience. Add more water and try some yeast nutrients possibly, another experiment would be try EC 1118 yeast and see if you get more alcohol

[shadylane]

"Help me troubleshoot my home malted barley mash"
Your doing just fine
Just a thought, I'm also into home malting.
And I use store bought enzymes for insurance
Let's me experiment more, without getting thirsty

[Fart Vader]

Thanks for the replies folks.

my vote goes for some unfermentables from that 210* but i'm not sure what exactly you did there, not quite understanding that part of the process?
you went to 210 with dry malt for a bit of crystal effect or you cooked the mash in the oven at 210*?

Yea, I guess I wasn't very clear on my methods.
I combined malting and mashing.

My malting consists of germination, drying until crispy, then baking at 210F to give the malt a little oomph.
After that, into the grain mill, then the mash.
Hmmm, cook the mash in the oven, that would be a novel approach

Now that you guys mention the thickness and conversion, my wheat is nice and thin.
Interestingly though, the barley is liquidy during the process and it did pass the iodine test. The hydrometer just won't sink even after settling overnight.

I'll run it soon and see how the yield stacks up.
If it is conversion, I might not be allowing the malting process to go long enough. But it did pass the iodine.
Confused.

[zapata]

I guess you're fermenting on grain, but you should be able to filter a small enough sample to get a SG.
My vote is its your pasteurizing step. Most whiskey mashes are not heated after conversion, no mash out, no boil. The enzymes keep working on dextrins and turning them into sugars. You are preventing that from happening, so your final gravity is inline with what one would expect from a beer that was mashed out and boiled, rather than a whiskey.

Wasn't there a post in the last few days about someone's AG gravity sample continuing to rise over a couple of days from this continued conversion?

The light roasting the malts are getting may have something to do with it, but I doubt it. I would expect any trouble there to show up as incomplete conversion, not high FG. I think if you want lower FG either skip the pasteurizing step, or mash a LOT longer before you do it, like 2 or 3 hours. Or pitch supplemental enzymes on the way down after the pasteurizing, they should be sterile enough, and will chew up the rest of your dextrins during fermentation.

[Fart Vader]

Great suggestions zapata. Ill extend the rest and skip pasteurization on the next batch.

Thanks all.

[zapata]

I think either/or should do it.
If you skip the pasteurization, no need to mash longer than it takes your iodine test to show full conversion. The remaining dextrins will be converted by the remaining enzymes throughout cooling and fermentation. Enzymes don't have a lower temp limit, it just slows them down. But they'll have days at least to chew through the dextrins.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I’m following along, Fart.
I malted a bunch of barley this last fall and I’ve been experimenting with it.

I find I get better conversions if I boil most of the malt and then add about 20% after to mash at normal temps.
My malt is under modified and I think this helps break down the grain.

I also kiln at about 200F and I seem to still have plenty of DP.
I haven’t done a full batch yet, so I can’t tell you how dry it will ferment yet.

Odd that your getting such a thick wort, malted barley is usually so nice to work with.

[Fart Vader]

Hi gang.
So I ran the mash yesterday and ended up with a yield that points to a beer of around 5%.
So my SG must have been around 1.06. I must have screwed up on my iodine test

I’ve got another 55lbs ready to go, so I’ll modify the protocol and report back.
Won’t get to it until next week however.

Cheers.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Another 55#? How much did you malt?

[Fart Vader]

Another 55#? How much did you malt?

Only 55lbs.
...At a time

2 more batches waiting to go.
I’ll document my “Bride of Mashimizer” malting setup in a bit.
Works very well.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I'm just gonna put this out there for ya, Fart.

This is a graph showing a couple test mashes that I did with my own home malted barley.

Looking at the results, it looks like my home malt is taking longer achieve the same conversion numbers as the store bought malt.

I am still waiting to get back to this testing, I want to see if I can get my SG up closer to the store bought stuff, either quicker or over more time.

I'm posting this because I think you might be able to avoid the thick gooey mash by mashing for longer times.
Let me know what you think, I'd like to hear any of your other results from using your home malts.

In the chart I'm showing SG over time, the store bought malt getting up to about 1.065.

[Fart Vader]

That's interesting Michigan, thanks for posting.
I'm going to buy a refractometer to improve my measurement accuracy.

We'll see what numbers I get with the modified protocol.

[bilgriss]

Definitely interested in these results!

I'll put my bet on time, given that your protocol looks otherwise really solid. If that doesn't change the outcome significantly, I'd next see if Shady's suggesting of enzymes had an impact. Between those, you'll know if you should focus on mashing or malting.

[Fart Vader]

All right, today is the day.
Got 55lbs barley stirring in the Mashimizer as I type. Temperature: 61C, should be at 64C/148F in a couple of minutes.
I'm going to keep the mash there for 3hrs, then I'll cool and pitch the yeast.
I also picked up a refractometer.

Stand by for updates ...

[Fart Vader]

Ok, here's an update.
Mashed at 64C/148F for 3hrs.
Iodine test OK.
No pasteurisation.
Refractometer reading of SG: 1.062.
100% O2 oxygenation for 5 minutes.
Pitched yeast, set water jacket PID to 33C.

Let's see where we end up.

P.S. Hey Michigan, looks like I match up to your store bought pretty much on the money.
Another update in a couple of days.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Very nice, total success.
Refractometers rule, eh?

[Fart Vader]

Very nice, total success.
Refractometers rule, eh?

Success? Well, we'll see about that.
Refractometer. I'm diggin' it!

[bilgriss]

Nice.

Was just going to say "nice" but that's not long enough. This is longer.

[Fart Vader]

Ok, so the verdict is in.
This thing fermented like gangbusters.
Krausen sank after 24 hrs, I've never seen that happen before.

3 Days in, I took a gravity reading with the refractometer. 1.033 WTF?
Next day, still bubbling like crazy, refractometer still says 1.033 WTF?
Sure enough, google informed me that once fermentation has begun, refractometer is out the window.
Phew. Took out the hydrometer and bam. 1.01
Two days later now, and still 1.01.

My wheat and corn mashes never get below 1.01 so I declare this a success !
Longer steep and no more pasteurization for my barley.

Thanks for helping me out folks.

BTW, my SG for my wheat mash was/is 1.07 and not 1.08 as I typed

[bilgriss]

Sounds great!

Your refractometer doesn't give a correct reading, except prior to fermentation. The amount of alcohol in the mix completely changes it's behavior once yeast starts working. You can download a corrections spreadsheet, or use an online calculator like this: https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

Your hydrometer is still more accurate, post-fermentation, but this correction works well.

[raketemensch]

There are some great apps for the refractometer, too. Nice work, man.

[badflash]

I would run off the wort from the grain. Are you using the entire 55# at a time? I usually use about 15# per 5 gallons and get about 1.080 SG. I also would not dry at such a high temperature. I would keep it below denaturing temperature and cook longer.

I don't dry my grain. I run it through a wheat flake machine and mash wet.