First time using liquid enzymes

[OtisT]

Howdy. I am using liquid enzymes for the first time and have a few questions about my observations. I’ve done lots of AGs without using enzymes, which is what I am comparing this batch to.

I am using SEBStar HTL for the high temp enzyme and an “Amylase Enzyme Formula” from BSG as my low temp enzyme. I’m making Oat/Wheat/Rye Whiskey per the tried and true recipe.

Observations:
Damn, did that SEBStar make quick work of my grains when I added it at 175F. I think I am in love. I let that set just a few hours and my mash was liquid, soft and sweet in no time. I stirred it a few times and let it air cool down to 145F. I want to do a Bourbon now, just so I can see how this stuff works on corn too.

I added the low temp enzymes along with some malted grains at 145f and it sat covered up for 14 hours. It’s at 135F now. Not only does this mash taste Crazy Sweet now, but it smells like it’s been sitting quite a bit longer than it has, almost too long if you get my meaning, like it’s on the verge of spoiling. Perfect for fermenting I am sure, but I have never gotten that level of decomposition smell before and I suspect it is just the enzymes breaking things down further than I have done before.

Questions:
After the overnight rest I noticed small patches of what look like infection starting. Looks like a handful of light tan, matt finish, splotchy spots with web like strands running through them. It may just be some form of oatmeal crust forming, like I see when my bowl of morning oats sets and cools. Looks the same. I am wondering if anyone has an opinion on whether this is an infection or just an oat crust, and also wondering if this is something others have noticed specifically when using enzymes? I’ve played a lot with infected dunder and have even added infected dunder to my fermenter, but I have never seen an infection come on this quick, if this is an infection. I guess I will know soon enough what it was.

Based on what I have experienced so far, I am thinking I need to process this quickly and not let it sit longer than necessary. Are there any concerns I should have with processing time? I am afraid this smell may become offensive soon. I don’t want to let it sit just to find out.

Otis

[Fiddleford]

I might not be able to help but I am interested enough to ask if you could put up a photo of the mash, Maybe a photo will help with diagnoses.

[OtisT]

I might not be able to help but I am interested enough to ask if you could put up a photo of the mash, Maybe a photo will help with diagnoses.

Sorry, that ship has sailed. I have my wort chiller and mixer in there now, so the little crusts have all been mixed back in.

[StillerBoy]

’m making Oat/Wheat/Rye Whiskey per the tried and true recipe.

I added the low temp enzymes along with some malted grains at 145f and it sat covered up for 14 hours.

Must ask.. your grain bill states no malt, yet you added malt.. why

Your high temp enzymes will have taken care of the conversion, with no need to add malt, unless you want some added flavour.. and 14 hrs later it is still 135*F, you must have some very good insulation on that fermenter/pot, because it should have been much lower in temp.. but then again, you don't state the size of the mash done..

When using liquid enzymes, no need to follow the same procedure as without the liquid enzymes.. malt is mainly used to do the conversion and some flavouring depending on type and amount used

Mars

[fizzix]

No way that's an infection after those recent high temps.
I use powdered enzymes, and can't account for Seb's reaction whether that's protein mass or whatever.
I've never encountered it.

And corn? Watch that thick sludge turn to soup!

[OtisT]

Thanks for the replies Stillerboy and Fizzix.

It’s my first run at this recipe, or any recipe with rye in it, so I am following the T&T recipe to the letter.

The grain bill does call for both malted and unmalted grains. The OP states what you said, that the reason for using both malted and unmalted grains was for flavor only and not for the enzymes in the malt.

My ferment is 35 gallons in a 55 gallon barrel and yes, I have a kick ass insulation box for my fermenter. I made it from 2” thick closed cell foam with a reflective surface inside. It’s virtually air tight and can hold a temp for some time. I covered this batch last night so I would not accidentally cool down past my next desired temp.

Fizzix, I was thinking the same thing: can’t wait to try enzymes on Corn. . I see a fresh bourbon in my near future.

Thanks for the thoughts about the crust, and it being too soon after that heat for an infection to form. While I’m not afraid of an infection, I am still a bit more at ease about where I am at. My brain went straight to thinking of infection when I saw that crust, but like you I thought it was just too soon so I came up with the oatmeal crust theory which is sounding more likely now.

Now it’s time to check my temps so I can pitch later today. . Otis

[Truckinbutch]

My approach with liquid enzymes is to copy PintOshine and use his liquid enzymes . I use a 30 gallon bop with a speed controlled paddle mixer driven by a 1/2" drill and propane heated .
Been getting stupid high conversions(90+%) and fantastic ferments . 60 # cob to 20 gallons of water for the cook . Just continue mixing to get the temp down for the low temp enzyme . About 4 hours for the full cook and transfer to a 32 gallon Brute suspended in a 44 gallon Brute filled with water . Ferment barrel lined with a 50 gallon clear trash bag and capped with the same with a few pin holes for venting co2 .
I add enough cold water to get 30 gallon volume and cool to yeast pitching temperature . Dump 3/4 quart of crushed oyster shell and pitch yeast . Cap with the second clear bag and sit back to watch the show . It starts soon .
This is just a general outline . I have gone in depth on other threads .

[TDick]

I am using ... an “Amylase Enzyme Formula” from BSG as my low temp enzyme. I’m making Oat/Wheat/Rye Whiskey per the tried and true recipe.

Otis

Sorry I don't have more to offer but I'll be watching your outcome. Also want to see your thoughts on the BSG Alpha.

I did a lazy version of PintoShine's video last year for Jimbo's Wheated Bourbon - detailed elsewhere.

I added the Alpha to COLD water along with my corn, and stirred it to heat. By the time I got to a boil, my iodine test was clear.
Put it in an Igloo chest overnight when it cooled down to temp I added malted wheat and barley. I added a bit more Alpha since I malted those myself.
As I said, details are on another thread but using the Alpha is no brainer insurance for any grain.
Good Luck!

[greggn]

> After the overnight rest I noticed small patches of what look like infection starting.

You mention adding malted grain at 145F but you didn't mention which grain. I've only had two mashes develop infections an both involved malted rye added at typical mash temperatures. I began using SEB liquid enzymes immediately thereafter and followed Booner's "casual" workflow ... boiling water poured over all grains with liquid enzymes for conversion. Haven't had an infection since.

[OtisT]

> After the overnight rest I noticed small patches of what look like infection starting.

You mention adding malted grain at 145F but you didn't mention which grain. I've only had two mashes develop infections an both involved malted rye added at typical mash temperatures. I began using SEB liquid enzymes immediately thereafter and followed Booner's "casual" workflow ... boiling water poured over all grains with liquid enzymes for conversion. Haven't had an infection since.

The two malts added were Wheat and Rye. I pitched yeast last night and it’s bubbling away now. I should know in the next two days if it was an infection or not.

Assuming this ends well (and I think it will) I will be using enzymes again, and the Booners method sounds like something I should look into. I may even have time to get a Booner’s All Corn run in before my Panela shows up.

Thanks, Otis

[shadylane]

I've been told 145f will pasteurize a mash.
But no-one told the wild yeast and bacteria