I get a lot of PM's in addition to the questions on my recipe threads. Going to list some things that I hope will help folks avoid a few common pitfalls.
* For all malt AG's you dont need to (shouldnt) cook the grain. The starches dont need to be gelatinized on malt like raw grain, And the heat will kill the enzymes.
* For AG's that have ANY raw grain, even steam rolled grains, instant oats, cornmeal, anything, you need to COOK the grain to gelatinize the starch. Put boiling water on it and wrap it up for 3 hours, watching the temp. Pitch the malt at strike temp, 150F or so.
* All grains need to be milled, except steam rolled grains. Corn meal is far superior to cracked corn.
* Use some Calcium Sulfate (CaSO4, Gypsum) in your mash, 1 tsp per 5-10gal. It helps the whole process.
* Iron is nodamngood. If you have hard water, use a softener, then use an RO to get rid of the salt, because salt is nodamngood either. Or buy water.
* If youre fermenting in cold temps, basements etc. be careful with Bakers yeast, it likes warm, 80F. If youre at 65 use a beer yeast like US05. Otherwise bakers is fine for whiskeys.
* Big batches take the same time as small batches. A 50g barrel and a large bucket paint stirrer chucked up in a 1/2" drill are your friends. (see my latest posts my bourbon thread)
* 5gal Paint strainer bags work great to squeeze the liquid off your grain. Its not as bad as it sounds. Takes me 1 hour to squeeze a 30 gal/67lbs of grain mash giving up 26 gal.
* After you squeeze it out, let it settle for 2 days. Then pour the liquid off teh top of the sludge into your still. This is the best way to avoid a scorch.
* DONT mess around with the ferment. It doesnt need or want your help. The yeast churn up the groceries just fine. Dont pop the top off your bucket, or stir it or panic about it. Just leave it be for a week. yeast know what to do.
* Be sanitary with everything. Starsan is easy to use. This isint making beer, where its boiled, so you need to be clean and sterile to give the yeast the headstart in the race.
*
I gotta head out now, if I think of other stuff Ill come back and edit this post.
Hopefully this pushes away the apprehension of all-grain for some on the fence.
Once one gets into grains, a world of flavors, creations, and combinations opens up.
Jimbo
Myself and GCB3 are working away together on all grains and learning off one another. This post could not have been better timed. I/We did balrey mash with malted and unmalted barley and got very low starting gravity. We now know the reason - never boiled the UNmalted barley. This post has cured this right up.
Thanks a mil. Super information.
Jimy
Jimbo wrote:
* Be sanitary with everything. Starsan is easy to use. This isint making beer, where its boiled, so you need to be clean and sterile to give the yeast the headstart in the race
Jimbo wrote:* 5gal Paint strainer bags work great to squeeze the liquid off your grain. Its not as bad as it sounds. Takes me 1 hour to squeeze a 30 gal/67lbs of grain mash giving up 26 gal.
The paint strainer bags work great
And a Mop Wringer is the tool needed to squeeze it.
What do you find is a good PH at the start of the ferment to prevent having to adjust PH mid ferment. No matter what I do or what water I use I typically have to adjust PH up about midway through the ferment. My ferments will start at 5.5 to 5.8 but will be close to 4.0 on the second or third day. I make an adjustment back up to 5.5 and it is typically fine after that.
Shady, you are correct, these ferments cant be sterile, because the malt is full of all sorts of things, and the temps never reach pasteurization temps in this process. What I meant was be as careful as you can with what we do have control over, dont introduce other bacteria from dirty buckets, spoons, etc. You want to give the yeast as much of an advantage as possible.
Corene, the pH of the mash, taken about 15 minutes in to let everything stabilize, should be 5.2-5.6 range. It is normal for the pH to drop to 4 during/after ferment. Beer is around 4 pH for the same reason. Are you having stuck ferments? Might be something else going on? You could try a little fermaid yeast nutrient. Gypsum helps. Ive found my ferments always do better with malt in the recipe that straight grain and lab enzymes.
[quote="Jimbo"]Ive found my ferments always do better with malt in the recipe that straight grain and lab enzymes.[/quote]
+1 Malt has all the good thinks that yeast needs.
Store bought enzymes are handy to get max conversion
shadylane wrote:Thanks for letting us pick your brain
What do you recommend for a starting gravity and why?
I shoot for 10% now Shady as I've found no downside over 8% with a healthy ferment, cool and slow. That's a SG of 1.078 or so. 2.3 lbs/gallon should get you there with a small grind like cornmeal and 0.030 on the malt mill spacing. Cracked corn will take more.
Jimbo wrote:I get a lot of PM's in addition to the questions on my recipe threads. Going to list some things that I hope will help folks avoid a few common pitfalls.
...
Cheers,
Jimbo
*
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Your writings were the push that got me interested in trying AG.
I did a gelatinization experiment in my kitchen last night with my unmalted barley. I kept the pot at 190*F throughout the 3 hr cook. Initially the iodine test was pure red and stayed that way through hour one. At 1 1/2 hours, the edges of the iodine drop started turning blue. At 2 hours and thereafter, it was solid, deep blue. Just as you said it would.
Nice CBGB's! I never did a proper test like that, really appreciate you sharing. I realized it empirically (the hard way LOL), nice to see numbers to it confirms what Ive been telling people, which is always nice to hear! LMAO. Id hate to steer you guys wrong! Altho I suspect I still do time and again....
Jimbo wrote:Corene, I measured the pH of the wash before doing the run yesterday. It was at 3.95. I think thats pretty typical post ferment.
The reason I asked is that I always have to do a mid ferment adjustment or the PH drops to a point that the ferment gets very slow (2 weeks slow) Since I am shooting for 8% I need it to finish strong and dry. It may be the weather here as the days are typically in the 100's so the ferment is around 84 degrees with bakers yeast US05 needs a lower temp so I will give it a try when temps start to fall here. We are in the mid 80's now. I do use a couple of supplements in the mash. Typically DAP, calcium, magnesium, some B vitamins and some amino acids. It makes for a strong ferment and does help but left unchecked the PH will go into the mid 3's. I have noticed if I keep the PH a bit higher at the finish, around mid 4's the actual finished spirit has a bit more flavor and less bite to the tongue. I have also used 3 types of water and results are very similar. I have used local TAP water, de-chlorinated. Water from my cousins well across town and water from our well at the range in the mountains. Lots of granite up there. It is the best water for the ferment so far, just a bear getting it home.
Hi Corene, yes Im sure its water related also. The minerals all play a role in moderating the pH, and its the combination with the malt/grain bill, so just measuring the water pH wont tell you much. haha I hear ya about hauling water, Ive brought water back from Michigan where its about as good as it gets. But hauling enough water to do anythign meaninful with is ridiculous. Ive settled on this setup I have now, Its a pain in the ass but works, softener-carbon filter-RO (into a 50gal tank so I have enough to do large batches) then add back the minerals I need. Im on a well and the base water is shit, full of iron. But this treatment makes happy mashes (finally) and my beer tastes good which is the hardest judge of them all with water problems. Your flute ran perfect yesterday, was an absolute joy to run again! I have it mounted up on a bigger tank now so can run 24 g batches in one one That does not suck.
I should probably do a water analysis just so I know whee I stand as far as the quality of water. Do you know if there is a test kit available or do you need to take samples to a lab?
water testing is done here highly recommended, https://www.wardlab.com/BrewersKitOrder.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow and everything you need to adjust your water to get a profile (which by the way will make a difference, the water in KY has a lot of limestone which helps them) can be done here, this is the best place to learn how to adjust water. https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
B.S.
When the student is ready the teacher will emerge.
corene1 wrote:I should probably do a water analysis just so I know whee I stand as far as the quality of water. Do you know if there is a test kit available or do you need to take samples to a lab?
your municipal health authority will likely do a potability test no charge. they do in this country anyway...
corene1 wrote:I should probably do a water analysis just so I know whee I stand as far as the quality of water. Do you know if there is a test kit available or do you need to take samples to a lab?
your municipal health authority will likely do a potability test no charge. they do in this country anyway...
Having a well I have my water tested about every 5 years. For the last 30 years it has always tested great.
I like to ferment at 68F with baker's yeast because I feel or it seems this gives me a cleaner distillate, bigger hearts cut and a shorter aging time to become real smooth.
Guess higher temperatures will give a more complex whisky if aging for a longer time and more heads/tails.
Big Stogie wrote:water testing is done here highly recommended, https://www.wardlab.com/BrewersKitOrder.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow and everything you need to adjust your water to get a profile (which by the way will make a difference, the water in KY has a lot of limestone which helps them) can be done here, this is the best place to learn how to adjust water. https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
B.S.
I hesitate to get off topic.
And now I will.
I'm on city water but I usually let it sit and dechlorinate at least overnight.
I don't want to sound TOO stupid but does anyone know if it would benefit doing that with crushed limestone for a couple of days.
I called a landscaping company and a few buckets is just a few bucks. So I figure what's the harm?
Call or email your municipal provider and ask them what the ph is and they will email a complete water analysis at that point you can decide if it needs adjusting.
TDick wrote:
I'm on city water but I usually let it sit and dechlorinate at least overnight.
I don't want to sound TOO stupid but does anyone know if it would benefit doing that with crushed limestone for a couple of days.
I called a landscaping company and a few buckets is just a few bucks. So I figure what's the harm?
What a great opportunity for some tests!
Make up 3-4 jars with varying amounts of limestone and see what you get for pH. Take your favorite one within guidelines and make a stovetop mash to see how it goes.
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
That does not suck.
