My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Longhairedcountryboy
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My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by Longhairedcountryboy »

I just gotten into all grain mashing recently. I have a few Booner's runs under my belt now. I did 4 large batches and everything went smooth. I think I am ready to dive into a more complex grain bill. ShineonCrazyDiamond's Honey Bear Bourbon seems to be popular with everyone, first timers and seasoned vets alike. I have a new 5 gallon Gibbs barrel I would like to get filled and put up, so here we go. LHCB's first HBB run, documented here for posterity:

My target volume was about 100 gallons and my target SG was 1.07. My fermenters are 55 gallon barrels, so the best way for me to hit my volume was to split the 100 gallons into 3 batches. I multiplied the grain bill by 7 to get the grain volume for each batch so 49lbs corn, 7lbs of red wheat malt, 7lbs white wheat malt, 7lbs pale ale malt and 3.5lbs honey malt. Each of the grains were ground to a coarse flour consistency.

I brought 30 gallons of filtered tap water to a rolling boil in my kegs and dumped it into a 55 gallon barrel. I mixed in 49lbs of corn. The temp was 180F after mixing in the corn. I hit it with a tablespoon and a half of Sebstar HTL, gave it a good stir, wrapped it up in insulation and started the next batch. I did that a total of 3 times. I mixed every half hour or so.

After the last barrel had sat for at least 90 minutes, I added 2.5 gallons of cold booner's backset to each of the barrels and stirred it up. The PH landed at 5.1 in all three barrels. I crashed the temp with a wort chiller to 152F and stirred in the malts. The temp landed at 150. I stirred it up for a minute, added 1.5 tablespoons of Sebamyl and stirred it up some more. I wrapped them back up and called it a day.

I didn't get back to it until later the next evening. The temps were all around 125F. All passed the iodine test. Brix came in at 17 on the refractometer and 1.07 on the hydrometer. Pretty neat that they all ended identical and on target.

I hydrated 2 cups of bakers active dry yeast in a half gallon of 110 F distilled water x 3 and let that sit for a couple hours. I haven't ever bothered to hydrate yeast before. I learned that a half gallon of water is not even close to enough water to hydrate 2 cups of yeast. If I ever bother again, I will start with at least four times as much water for that quantity of yeast. With this liquid addition, that brings me to 33 gallons each for a total of 99 gallons.

I crashed the temp to 85 F, aerated the shit out of it with the drill mounted mixer and pitched the yeast. I pitched in 15 grams of Fermaid K in each as well. I wrapped them up snug and put them to bed.

I checked them this morning and they are bubbling away. Here's the crazy thing. The temp inside the fermenters had risen almost 20 degrees. The thermometers I have in the barrels were reading 103 to 104. The room is at 60F ambient. I have never seen the temp rise almost 45 degrees over ambient. I was not expecting that at all. I cracked the lids to let some heat out and shut off the little space heater in the workshop. That was about 8 hours ago or so. The ambient temp has fallen to 52 degrees. The barrels are still at 100. Crazy.

Too be continued...
Longhairedcountryboy
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

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48 hours after pitching, the temps in the fermenters are down to 92 F. They are still bubbling away. The ambient temp in the workshop is still in the low 50's. I took a gravity reading. All three ferments are at 1.01. I'm not going to mess with them again until the temps drop and the caps sink.
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by OtisT »

Hey LHCB. Your gonna like HBB. :thumbup: :thumbup:

For me, it’s not uncommon to see temps spike like that in the first 1 to 1.5 days, especially when I pitch a ton of yeast in a healthy ferment. If I do nothing, it can climb well over 100F but I like to run my bakers yeast in the 80s. 125 would scare me. I will sometimes use a fan on the covered barrel when It gets too hot, then cover it with increasing amounts of insulation as the temp starts to drop. I would not want to use a fan on an uncovered ferment as that would blow away the layer of CO2 protecting the ferment.

Here is a close approximation of what a fast/hot ferment with bakers yeast looks like for me:

Pitch at 80F. Bottom and side wall insulation only to hold temp near 80 until temps start to rise.
At about 12 hours, when I see temps start to rise, at about 82F, I will remove the side walls because I know it’s gonna get hotter.
When/if temps climb above 90 I will put a fan blowing on the barrel until it’s at or below about 86 on its way down.
At about 48 to 60 hours the temp is slowly dropping and when it gets back near 84 I’ll throw the walls back up so it does not drop too fast.
When the temp gets down to 82 I throw the top cover insulation on for the remainder of the ferment.

I wish you luck in the cuts to come.
Otis
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by Scorpster »

>Longhairedcountryboy
>Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006
>I just gotten into all grain mashing recently.
Really, thats amazing.
When I first ran my HBB I had no experience with bourbon, I did like Makers, but didn't realize it was a bourbon (us Canucks tend to think of whiskey as rye). When I went to try a run of HBB, I thought I have nothing really to compare it too. So after some research about bourbon I bought a bottle of Buffalo Trace as a baseline. I took a sip out of the bottle after I left the store. All I can say is...does Gaterade make bourbon? I thought it was a vile flavour and couldn't believe my taste buds. After some aging the HBB became quite drinkable, so I recently ran it again, with a sugarhead on top of the allgrain remains.
Before Xmas I went to the land of cheap booze (US), and tried some Jim Beam Black, also didn't like, but ok with Coke. Now my latest HBB is just starting to hit the "aged" point. So far I can say that my homeade HBB is better than both the BT and JBB that I have tried. So I still wonder what the fuss is about bourbon. But must say the HBB is pretty special. Even the sugarhead is starting to come around after a couple months.
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Way to go, go big or stay home :thumbup: :thumbup:
I do 50 gal ferments in my 70 gal fermentor one at a time, I like your method of multiple ferments- maybe it's time for me to get a couple more tanks 8)
You are looking good at the 17 brix target, that's what I get.
Last batch of HBB I just pitched the yeast (US05) on top of the mash, crazy and happy ferment, also added some fermaid O - maybe too much.

Sipping on some 2 year old HBB and I think that you will be happy with your barrel in a couple of years.

Cheers
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by Longhairedcountryboy »

OtisT wrote:Hey LHCB. Your gonna like HBB. :thumbup: :thumbup:

For me, it’s not uncommon to see temps spike like that in the first 1 to 1.5 days, especially when I pitch a ton of yeast in a healthy ferment. If I do nothing, it can climb well over 100F but I like to run my bakers yeast in the 80s. 125 would scare me. I will sometimes use a fan on the covered barrel when It gets too hot, then cover it with increasing amounts of insulation as the temp starts to drop. I would not want to use a fan on an uncovered ferment as that would blow away the layer of CO2 protecting the ferment.

Here is a close approximation of what a fast/hot ferment with bakers yeast looks like for me:

Pitch at 80F. Bottom and side wall insulation only to hold temp near 80 until temps start to rise.
At about 12 hours, when I see temps start to rise, at about 82F, I will remove the side walls because I know it’s gonna get hotter.
When/if temps climb above 90 I will put a fan blowing on the barrel until it’s at or below about 86 on its way down.
At about 48 to 60 hours the temp is slowly dropping and when it gets back near 84 I’ll throw the walls back up so it does not drop too fast.
When the temp gets down to 82 I throw the top cover insulation on for the remainder of the ferment.

I wish you luck in the cuts to come.
Otis
Thanks for taking the time to outline your process, Otis. Ferments of this volume are new to me. The one thing I am struggling with is keeping the temps controlled. At first I was worried about being able to keep the heat up for bakers yeast. My workshop is on the cool side this time of year. I actually bought a couple aquarium heaters just in case. I pitched at 85. It was up to 92 within the first 2 hours after pitching. The hottest it got was 104, and maybe only for a couple hours. I would like to maintain between 85 and 95 ideally. I'll get it dialed in eventually.

Scorpster, I had to shut down for about 10 years. I used to do 5 gallon batches of rum and Uncle Jesse's Sour Mash in a 8 gallon pot still. That was way back on the farm between 2006 to 2008. I just started back up in July of 2018. So even though I've been a member here for a long time, I'm really just a noob. I'm stumbling my way through learning my new still and getting procedures dialed in.

OVZ, I might have bitten off more than I can chew. I can run 25 gallons at a time. I'm hoping to get 4 stripping runs done on Saturday (if the mash cooperates) and then a marathon spirit run on Sunday. The goal is to get the oak barrel filled and shelved in one batch, with some white left for sippin and experimenting with oak sticks in glass. Like I mentioned above, this is new to me. I'm learning my limits as I go.
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Oldvine Zin
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Longhairedcountryboy wrote: OVZ, I might have bitten off more than I can chew. I can run 25 gallons at a time. I'm hoping to get 4 stripping runs done on Saturday (if the mash cooperates) and then a marathon spirit run on Sunday. The goal is to get the oak barrel filled and shelved in one batch, with some white left for sippin and experimenting with oak sticks in glass. Like I mentioned above, this is new to me. I'm learning my limits as I go.
But so good that you are pushing it. Good luck with your mash, hope that you can run it soon. My current HBB mash that I started new years day is still bubbling :roll: It's in the negative numbers so might just go ahead and run it tomorrow.

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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by Longhairedcountryboy »

The plan was to strip this batch today and do the spirit run tomorrow. The SG is at .996 to .998 and it is starting to clear. As I was setting up and getting ready to fill boilers, I realized that the carboys I need to use for collecting the low wines still have undiluted Booner's and the feints from that run in them. I never decided what to do with it. I have 3 new five gallon Gibbs barrels. I was going to fill one with the corn whiskey, but I hadn't decided for sure if I wanted to use a new barrel for just corn or if I wanted to save the barrels for bourbons with a little more depth of flavor. So I got some used barrel pieces and started making fingers for aging in glass, but they are not done. I got them cut to size. I toasted them last night. I still have to char them. I really need to do that outside, I don't have a garage and the sky is dumping snow right now.

I was going to run the corn feints through the reflux still I built, but that isn't done yet either. I was ready to do cleaning runs but decided to add a modular Boka style LM head to it so I waited to clean it until I had all the pieces together. I have the LM head project on my workbench. I have all the parts to finish it. I just need to make the plates and slot the copper tube then solder it up.

I really should get my electric controller sorted as well. I stripped my old controller for parts to build a new one. I started it and stopped after I saw OVZ's controller. I had never seen DIN rails before. Well, I probably have, but it didn't cross my mind to use them. It looks a lot cleaner and easier than cramming wire and wire nuts into the box. I put my build on hold until I have time to research those and figure out what I need to order to complete it. (Any of you electrical wizards available for a PM conversation to help me get my schematic and parts sorted?)

So here I am, feeling like I should probably catch up on all the incomplete projects before I get too far ahead of myself, if I'm not there already. I think I'm going to give the mash another day or so, then rack it into buckets and squeeze the grains and let that sit to clear some. It will have to wait until next weekend before I can run it. I'm going to ignore it for now and work on getting everything else checked off the to-do list while I have time this weekend.

Does anyone have an opinion on aging the Booner's? It turned out great. I pulled a few bottles out for drinking white. Straight off the still, I think it is better than any of the UJSM I did in the past. I guess what I'm asking is if you had a new barrel and could put anything in it, would you fill it with corn whiskey, or wait and put a nice bourbon or rye in it?
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

I put Honey Bear in my new Gibbs 5 gallon. I followed it with Booners right after. It was a perfect set up if you ask me. The gibbs had a good amount for the second use.

I don't know if I would do any single grain the first time, unless you really liked it. It would be good, but with so much vanilla and caramel, that would dominate. But it isn't wrong to do it :).

I think my new Gibbs 5 will be filled with CROW bourbon, and then followed with an all oat or oat wheat whiskey.

Im sipping an oat UJ aged on second wood, and it's wonderful. The wood puts just enough in, and doesn't overwhelm the single grain.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Oh, and good for you on going big. You won't be upset that you did. And, it's a perfect white whiskey. I might run a batch this summer just for keeping white. I didn't before, and I miss the few glasses that I had white.

Where are you keeping the barrels? I highly recommend the attic. Pull it in September, and you will be very very happy.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
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Longhairedcountryboy
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

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ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:I put Honey Bear in my new Gibbs 5 gallon. I followed it with Booners right after. It was a perfect set up if you ask me. The gibbs had a good amount for the second use.

I don't know if I would do any single grain the first time, unless you really liked it. It would be good, but with so much vanilla and caramel, that would dominate. But it isn't wrong to do it :).

I think my new Gibbs 5 will be filled with CROW bourbon, and then followed with an all oat or oat wheat whiskey.

Im sipping an oat UJ aged on second wood, and it's wonderful. The wood puts just enough in, and doesn't overwhelm the single grain.


SCD, I am looking forward to having a few used barrels for just such a thing, but for now all I have is new. Not a bad problem to have.

The corn seems so "delicate" that I was afraid it would get lost in the new barrel. I am enjoying it white, but I would like to get some on sticks of varying toast and char, just to experiment.
ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Where are you keeping the barrels? I highly recommend the attic. Pull it in September, and you will be very very happy.
As far as storing the barrels for aging, my first thought was to use a small storage shed I have on my property. It isn't climate controlled at all. Not sure how cold is too cold for a barrel. It can get down to single digits at night this time of year, and triple digits in summer. I could store them in my unfinished basement until spring and move them out to the shed. Most of the basement is not climate controlled at all either. It dips down to the upper 40's in the dead of winter, but doesn't get much warmer than mid to upper 60's in the summer down there. I never thought about the attic. That might be perfect, temperature wise. It's a bitch to get up there. The only access opening is a 24"x16" panel in the 10ft tall ceiling in a closet. There is blown-in fiberglass insulation 2 feet deep up there. If I can get a barrel up there, I know I won't be tempted to sneak a sample too often.
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Re: My AG adventure so far, or LHCB's First HBB

Post by Longhairedcountryboy »

Update:
The plan was to run this last weekend. I started on Saturday, but I had a few things come up that kept me from having the time to make a full run. All I was able to get done on Saturday was to rack the cleared from the top and start straining/squeezing the grain bed. I got a new pump for Christmas and finally got to try it out. I rigged up a thing to make syphoning and pumping easier. It worked perfect and cut the time down quite a bit
2 Ladel.jpg
3 sleeve.jpg
4 Assembly.jpg
1 Syphon Setup.jpg
5 Pump.jpg

I ended up with 61 gallons of cleared mash.

On Sunday, all I had time for was finishing squeezing the grains through the mop bucket, getting the still set up and cleaning up the mess from the grains. I ended up recovering about another 35 gallons from the grains for a total of 96 gallons. Perfect for four 24 gallon strips.

Things didn't go so smooth on Monday. I started the first 24 gallon strip, but sprung a leak at one of the solder joints a couple hours into the run. I must have accidentally kicked a shim out that kept the boiler level and created stress on the arm to the thumper. The leak was pretty bad, so I decided to shut it down and fix it instead of trying to applying flour paste. A couple hours later, I was up and running again. The first strip finished with about 6 gallons of low wines at about 35%.

The second 24 gallon strip started well but a couple hours into the run, the glass window on the fill port just cracked out of nowhere. I was sitting there and heard a crack and then saw liquid trickle down the front of the boiler. I keep a backup glass disk, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been. I waited for the still to cool a little and switched out the glass.

With all the messing around fixing things, I ran out of time to finish the run. I had to shut down for the night half way through the second strip run. I finished it up Tuesday night. I was worried I might flood the thumper so I drained a gallon or two out and transferred it to the boiler. I didn't think about the volume in the boiler. By the end of the run, the boiler was pretty low and what was in it was getting to be a darker shade of brown. I don't think it scorched. There is no obvious evidence of scorchign at least. when I shut down, the smell from the boiler reminded me of hot dog water for some reason. I've got my fingers crossed that I didn't mess it up. I ended up with about 5 1/2 gallons at 35%. I think I lost some alcohol in the boiler to evaporation from having to shut down and let it sit for a day.

Also, I had problems with my condenser huffing. I had a hard time getting the water flow set. The condenser is plenty big enough to knock down everything I can throw at it, but getting it balanced is a challenge. After messing with it for hours during the run, I ended up stuffing a piece of stainless scrubby up the pipe. It seemed to fix the problem. I ordered some copper mesh to create a more permanent solution. I'm thinking some copper mesh wrapped around some 12 gauge wire that I can insert for strip runs and remove for spirit runs and cleaning.

In summary so far, I think 100 gallon mashes is way too much for me. The mashing wasn't so bad, but straining and squeezing over 200 lbs of grain with a mop bucket is a lot of time consuming work. It is a huge bottleneck in the process. I need to come up with a more efficient solution or scale way back. I was thinking about making a press like the apple guys use. I have a bottle jack. It's 20 ton but if I take it easy, I think it will work. I have two 6' lengths of 4"x8" redwood I think would work for the vertical posts. I just have to figure out the rest of it and put it together. It might be awhile before I get to that though. In the meantime, once this batch is finished, I think I am going to take a break from grain and focus on some rum and getting my electrical controller finished up and the CCVM up and running.

I'm going to keep chipping away at this batch. I'll continue to update as I have time.
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