Stuck Fermentation..

[Dec]

My first wash so I'm not really dissappointed, I realise it is a learning curve. What I don't want is for it to happen again for the same reason. So I'm here to try find out the reason if yous'll oblige me?

My setup:
A 25L basin
6 kilos of sugar
2x140g tins of tomato purée
1 multivitamin tab and 1 vit B complex (both crushed and boiled in some water with the purée)
This was then added to the basin and topped up with water along with the 6 kilos of sugar and mixed well. The temp was too high (~43C) so I left it covered overnight to cool with the aerator running. In the morning I turned on the (50W) thermostat to keep it at a steady 25C. The pH was 8.8 so I added some lemon juice and brought it to 6.5.
I then added 100g of dried bakers yeast, stirred well and left it with the aerator running for another 36hours. When I checked it after 36 hours it was all foamy and smelled lovely and alcoholic (I was over the moon!). I took a quick taste of it, it was still quite sweet but there was a definite cider quality to it. I checked the pH and it was 3.7, a bit low, so I added a tsp of baking soda (sodium bicarb) to it which brought it up to 4.4, perfect.
That was last sunday night (the 27th of feb).. and though it had gotten ever so slightly less sweet (more alcoholic) since then, it's progress has been mindnumbingly slow.

It is still carbonated (visibly so) which is slightly surprising to me given it doesn't have a proper airlock, just wrapped over with cling-film with a couple holes punched in it.

My ideas about why it may be stuck:
A) The soda bicarb was the wrong thing to add, and whatever the salt or whatever it produces when it neutralised with the acid has hindered the yeast in some way (btw I know now not to add lemon juice initially, hadn't counted on the yeast reducing the ph itself).
B) There was insufficient nutrient available (what homedistiller.org sites as the usual problem) for the yeast to keep going. Maybe the tomato paste wasn't enough? Maybe I need to add something else?

Your thoughts and comments would be appreciated

Cheers
~Dec

[The Chemist]

Six kg=13 lbs. Seems to be about twice the recommended. Check your alcohol concentration, you may be done, not stuck! If you just had too much sugar, you should still be able to distill, but be careful not to burn. Depending on the size of your still, I would add plenty of water to keep things from getting too syrupy, and then re-ferment after distillation. Who knows how it will turn out, but worth a try!

[Dec]

Hmm cheers, hadn't thought of that.

I don't have a hydrometer to check the concentration but if I had I don't see how it would work seein as there is still sugar there messin with the density?

Accordin to this site 6kg of sugar in 25L will yield 14% which is what I thought was the limit of bakers yeast.. Hmm I see you might be right, seein as 14% is the very max.. So the soda bicarb is ok to put in?

I'm gonna be using Lalvin KV-1116 next, so how much sugar do you reckon I should use for that (was going to use 7kg)? Should I just leave it at 6?

Don't let it burn? You mean the sugar in my wash in my still? That'd be as a result of heating it too fast/letting the temp get too high yeah?

Sorry for all the q. thanks so much btw

[Guest]

Hmm cheers, hadn't thought of that.

I don't have a hydrometer to check the concentration but if I had I don't see how it would work seein as there is still sugar there messin with the density?

Accordin to this site 6kg of sugar in 25L will yield 14% which is what I thought was the limit of bakers yeast.. Hmm I see you might be right, seein as 14% is the very max.. So the soda bicarb is ok to put in?

I'm gonna be using Lalvin KV-1116 next, so how much sugar do you reckon I should use for that (was going to use 7kg)? Should I just leave it at 6?

Don't let it burn? You mean the sugar in my wash in my still? That'd be as a result of heating it too fast/letting the temp get too high yeah?

Sorry for all the q. thanks so much btw

7kg should be fine with the KV-1116. If I remember correctly, that is lalvin's champagne yeast?? If so, I have had pretty good luck with it fermenting up to around 18% . But I have also had a couple batches smell a bit like sulfer. The sulfer smell seems to not be present if it is fermented at a lower temperature 65-70* F (but then the fermentation would take a bit longer). I would suggest using Lalvin's EC-1118 if at all possible. If not possible, then the champagne yeast would be ok.

[The Chemist]

Sorry 'bout that--I must be getting old. Did the calculations--7 kg should be fine. Sounds like you've given up on the first batch, so please disregard the re-fermenting bit. I think you'll get better results with the better yeast. Don't worry so much about the pH, although it does seem that your starting point was quite high. Get some yeast nutrient from your yeast supplier, if possible. The tomato paste should work, too--it's been recommended on this site, but with sugar wash you certainly need something else for the yeast to eat.

[knuklehead]

I also think the problem with the first batch was simply that the sugar concentration was to high. A lot of the yeast could have died in the first while leaving only a few survivors to do the fermention which would explain why its so slow. The hydrometer that the chemist mentioned was a wash hydrometer which measures potential alcohol. You need to check your starting SG and subtract your ending SG in order to calculate the alcohol content of your wash. You need two hydrometers, one for the wash and one for the product. You really need to get an air look first of all but what I think is even more important is that once it has started that you just be patient and leave it be. If you are sticking PH strips and dumping addatives into the wash during fermentation you are only asking for trouble. Hope it goes better on your second try, sucks when something doesn't work. I think Lavlin EC-1118 is also a champane yeast and it is great. It is strong so it quickly takes over the batch and there is less chance of infection. One thing I don't like about it is that in a sugar wash it will be ssslllooowww but it will make it up to 20% if you have the sugar and the patients. If you are going to use it in sugar then culture it first, that will get them all worked up and ready to go when you pitch. I also buy my yeast nutrient. It only cost a buck and a half and all you need is pinch to feed your yeast. Good luck Dec

[linw]

snip ...... if you have the sugar and the patients.

Your stuff strictly medicinal, KH? Guess you must have a hospital close by!!!

[knuklehead]

Your stuff strictly medicinal, KH? Guess you must have a hospital close by!!!

Sure it is, isn't yours .