Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby Dnderhead » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:11 am

untill it starts gitting to thick, then add some enzymes/malt. then if you need to cook more do so.
some grain seems to cook with the first time,, some need more.

(I do off grain fermenting so---)
what I do is after it is converted,, I remove wort,,put that in fermenter,add hot water to "old grain" stir , draw off water
and use that water for the next "cook" (that way I remove sugars from used grain)
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby Nies » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:14 pm

Good info, I will back it up for ya with some some numbers and even a reference to the source. Alpha amylase is active from 140F to 170F. The most active range or the range were the said enzyme works best, (the sweet spot) is 140F to 158F. Other enzymes that are helpful, but are only active at a lower temps, beta amylase (140F-149F), and dextrinase (140F-155F). The sweet spot PH wise is between 5.1 to 5.6 respectively. All info obtained in "How To Brew" by John Palmer. If you want the actual papers and studies, they are listed in his references section. This is good stuff if you really want to know the science behind mashing. I would bet equally useful for the distiller as well. :ewink:
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby I-GOR » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:53 am

A little tip I've been using lately to help start up on boiling corn to go faster. Put the full amount of corn in the pot w/ one third the water an start heating. Put another third water in a pot on a different burner. It'll take the corn long enough to start swelling, by the time the other water boils add it to the corn and then do the last third on the other burner. Cuts my boil time down a bit. You can still premalt or I add a little alpha and beta enzyme to the corn at the start.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby WalkingWolf » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:32 am

With all the all-grain discussions lately I thought I'd give this thread a bump. Good info for folks getting their thoughts together on trying an AG.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby RumBrewer » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:51 pm

Anyone using iodine tests to ensure conversion?

Also, why not just buy flaked corn? It's pre geletanized and does not require a cereal mash.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby jake_leg » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:26 am

RumBrewer wrote:Anyone using iodine tests to ensure conversion?

Also, why not just buy flaked corn? It's pre geletanized and does not require a cereal mash.


Yes, I use tincture of iodine from the local chemist.

There are 2 types of flaked corn that I can get my hands on. The pre-gelatinized corn from the brewer's shop is expensive. The micronized corn used for animal feed is much cheaper but not pre-gelatinized and needs to be cooked. I don't seem to be able to get my hands on steam rolled feed corn.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby 501outlaw » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:26 am

jake_leg wrote:
RumBrewer wrote:Anyone using iodine tests to ensure conversion?

Also, why not just buy flaked corn? It's pre geletanized and does not require a cereal mash.


Yes, I use tincture of iodine from the local chemist.

There are 2 types of flaked corn that I can get my hands on. The pre-gelatinized corn from the brewer's shop is expensive. The micronized corn used for animal feed is much cheaper but not pre-gelatinized and needs to be cooked. I don't seem to be able to get my hands on steam rolled feed corn.

Will steam rolled corn work just like flakes corn
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby RumBrewer » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:20 am

501outlaw wrote:Will steam rolled corn work just like flakes corn

Nope. You would still need to cereal mash them.... As far as I can tell from brewers trying to make very lite beer by adding corn.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby roostershooter7 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:34 pm

I've been winemaking for 15 years, and have only bought amylase one time. After purchasing it for $6 in the late 90's I decided to use a much simpler / cheaper method for clearing my wines. The same would hold true in this instance .... Bananas.

Mashed bananas that are slightly brown on the peel work better than any clearing agent I have ever purchased. The key enzymes involved in fruit ripening are amylase and pectinase. When the bananas are slightly over ripe with very few brown spots on them is the best time to throw them in.

They can also help to convert the starches to fermentable sugars and help to raise the alcohol content in the end. :wink:

I threw bananas in an apple cider a few months ago that simply would not clear after being racked for 3 months! The bananas cleared my wine in 3 days.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby NcHooch » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:50 am

...can't imagine what that would do to the taste of a corn or bourbon whiskey mash.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby RumBrewer » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:29 pm

NcHooch wrote:...can't imagine what that would do to the taste of a corn or bourbon whiskey mash.

prolly not a lot.
Buy my Banana wine isn't clearing at all... Ain't that about Irony!
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby Dnderhead » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:31 am

how long has it been? bananas take a long time ,rack once a month for a year..I thank real ripe bananas clear faster.(turning brown)
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby roostershooter7 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:20 am

Dnderhead wrote:how long has it been? bananas take a long time ,rack once a month for a year..I thank real ripe bananas clear faster.(turning brown)



Exactly. Too many people put their bananas in too early! I wait until they have 2 or 3 black spots on the peel. My banana wine cleared a week after the second racking!

Although, can't say that it tastes all that great! :D
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby Dnderhead » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:40 am

(green) bananas have a lot of starch.as it ripens the starch turns to sugars.so if you wines are cloudy the most likely its starch haze.
so either use ripe bananas or you will need to use enzymes to convert the starch.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby RumBrewer » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:53 am

Meh.
They were pretty much ready for bread making. and i don't really care about the haze, it's not drinking wine it's still'en wine.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby WV Shine » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:33 am

Rooster, how many bananas do you use for a 5-6gal wine/beer?
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby Hillbilly dog » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:10 pm

This is a great AG post I hope this helps me improve my corn mash results
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby Lineman2338 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:40 pm

I'm new, and a bit dumb, but how did the old timer's do it? They didn't have access to MileHigh or any web site. I'm working on sprouting some corn to grind, add it to the bag of cracked corn from the feed store after I cook it in a 55gal drum. Any insight?
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby still_stirrin » Fri May 08, 2015 4:17 pm

Lineman,

You've got your work cut out for you. Have you ever malted grains before? Corn is very difficult to malt.

You'd better go to the new distiller's reading lounge and read for a month or two before proceeding. You're in way over your head right now.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby inkman8 » Thu May 28, 2015 1:04 pm

Alpha amylase works best around 180-190 but then you can bring temp down after boil to between 145-155 and add gluco amylase for further starch breakdown best done with a constant stir motor usually in my case a drill and paint mixer for lack of a better term I guess and you can get both powdered or liquid on eBay where either type in powder form is about $9.00 per lb
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby humbledore » Thu May 28, 2015 5:47 pm

I think you are of a bit off on that temp range for standard alpha amylase...145-150F. If you are talking hi -temp enzymes, then your range is correct, but your price is wrong.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby thumper123 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:12 pm

I use Milehigh alpha and glucose, too. I found out the slow way that what they say about Ph is right on the money. While 5.0 or 5.2 is perfect for the alpha, don't forget to drop it with backset down to 4.0 to 4.5 for the glucose. I set my wash right at 4.0 now, and it works great.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby masonsjax » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:16 pm

Just FYI, the 5.2 product does not work as advertised. The problems with it are well documented and discussed frequently in the AG beer community. Here is one such thread where the brilliant chemist AJ Delange explains some of the science involved:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.ph ... ostcount=2

If you really want to get the ideal pH for your mash/ferment, I would recommend getting your water tested (or starting with RO water), entering that data and your grain bill into brewing software (like brunwater) to calculate how much mineral/acid to add to get in the ballpark, and fine tune with a pH meter if need be.
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Re: Made an interesting mashing discovery this afternoon...

Postby thumper123 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:09 am

I also use Mile High enzymes. I've had good luck with them, but I follow the directions to the letter - I watch the Ph closely (it's different for the alpha and the glucose). You have to adjust it from 5 - 5.5 for the alpha to 4.5 for the glucose. I use backset and lemon juice. Also I've had very good luck grinding my corn quite fine, about the consistency of grits. Boil times are shorter, clumping and sticking are less, and conversion is thorough.
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