No Mash No sugar

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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DSmith78
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by DSmith78 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:49 pm

rubberduck71 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:21 am
DSmith78 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:04 am
IMG_20201115_092317_copy_600x800.jpg

These are the fruits of my labour for my first 'sake' using this yeast and I am VERY impressed!
DSmith, how long did your ferment run? I have 11 kg/25 lbs of rice in a 6 gallon fermenter going now for 2 weeks. Stirred a couple times since the rice bed was so thick at the bottom. Bubbling was very vigorous, but is starting to slow (~every 5-8 seconds).
Just under 3 weeks fermenting, then a week to clear. Still cleared a little in the bottles with a small amount of sediment at the bottom. Really clean tasting drink!
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by rubberduck71 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:35 pm

DSmith78 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:49 pm
rubberduck71 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:21 am
DSmith78 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:04 am
IMG_20201115_092317_copy_600x800.jpg

These are the fruits of my labour for my first 'sake' using this yeast and I am VERY impressed!
DSmith, how long did your ferment run? I have 11 kg/25 lbs of rice in a 6 gallon fermenter going now for 2 weeks. Stirred a couple times since the rice bed was so thick at the bottom. Bubbling was very vigorous, but is starting to slow (~every 5-8 seconds).
Just under 3 weeks fermenting, then a week to clear. Still cleared a little in the bottles with a small amount of sediment at the bottom. Really clean tasting drink!
Yeah, I had to sample some the other night. SWIMBO didn't like it because it was "too strong," but I thought it was very good! Still milky-colored, but I can cold-crash it outside in a week or two when the bubbling completely stops.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Honest_Liberty » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:13 am

I just ordered 500g packet of some today from Ebay. Says between December 21 and February 19, so claims I should have it by February 19th. It's kinda fun because I'll definitely forget about the order and then randomly one day receive a package. It is a welcome refresher from my typical impatience if a Prime order is a day late.
Last edited by Honest_Liberty on Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Honest_Liberty » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:24 pm

So this smells much sweeter and has a decent potency as it is fermenting. Could it be that it continued to convert over night after I put in the gluco?
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Clamsmasha » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:35 pm

Honest_Liberty wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:24 pm
So this smells much sweeter and has a decent potency as it is fermenting. Could it be that it continued to convert over night after I put in the gluco?
I use an alpha/gluco combo pruduct. I let it rest at around 70c in an insulated vessel for however long it takes to fall to around 50c. It gets sweeter over the course of quite a few hours.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:46 pm

Clamsmasha wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:35 pm
Honest_Liberty wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:24 pm
So this smells much sweeter and has a decent potency as it is fermenting. Could it be that it continued to convert over night after I put in the gluco?
I use an alpha/gluco combo pruduct. I let it rest at around 70c in an insulated vessel for however long it takes to fall to around 50c. It gets sweeter over the course of quite a few hours.
Has this got anything to do with Angel's Starter of Liquor Making? If it has, I'm confused already so please explain why it is. If it isn't, please start another thread about whatever it is you are discussing.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Honest_Liberty » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:16 am

sorry, I was getting confused between two threads I was looking at and combined thoughts into that post. I deleted the extraneous stuff.


So my question then would be, if I malt my corn, grind it and toss it in...what should I expect with the angel yeast?
Complete conversion but in much faster time than just cracking the corn and tossing in other grains?
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by RC Al » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:46 pm

Angel is not fast, it is labour saving and reduces the chance of a poor conversion from malting or enzymes use,

The fermetng times can be considerably longer than what a brewer with their "give a hoot" hat on can achieve.

If you can work out good conversion rates when mashing with malt, using the angel to fermet with would be a waste of time just to grab a percent or two more out of the grains in the mash.

Further reading on Angels site suggests that boiling the hell out of corn in particular is still a good thing to get the angel working properly.

Malting only produces the enzymes, it still needs to be bought up to the right temps to convert the starch to sugars. Using malted grain wil affect flavour, to what degree seems to be still undiscoverd so far with angel, but not increase speed

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by rubberduck71 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:25 pm

I started up 2x25L batches of oat, barley, & honey with Angel yeast on 11/28. We'll see how they turn out...

Looks like my 25 lb/11 kg batch of rice that I started in mid-Nov is just about done! I'm going to rack off using a fine hop mesh screen tube to minimize any rice particulate carrying over & cold crash it outside (dipping into the 20s F overnight here in PA!) to help it clear. Then I have to decide whether or not to keep it bottled as a rice wine or distill it... It's quite tasty as is.

I have a crapload of rice "trub" left in the fermenter, so I might experiment with adding some water to see if it kicks off again. I imagine with such a high ratio of rice:water, there might be a good chunk of starches left & the ABV got too high for the yeasties & enzymes to continue.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Clamsmasha » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:03 am

I just landed my first successful all corn mash with angel.

26kg of cracked corn milled fine.

I poured in 90* water and insulated... I let it sit for 3 days. Then I sparked up my boiler and drove steam into it for several hours. It amazes me how much you have to punish this stuff to get anywhere near gelatinisation.

I split it into 3 vessels and added room temp water totalling about 110lts...It was a fairly thick mash. Pitched Angel at 40* directly and hit it with the paint stirrer. It went nuts, I had to knock it down every few hours in the beginning so it didn’t spill over.

Stirred daily for a week, slacked off after that.

2 weeks later it was super sour almost to the point of smelling like vinegar.

Long story short, I wrung about 90lts of juice out and got 2 keg charges. Stripping runs yielded 20lts total of 35% low wines. That’s my best yield of any grain so far and it tasted pretty good.

I’m thinking of making it a straight corn, but I have 10lts of Triticale wines I could blend it with too...

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by RC Al » Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:16 am

That works out as a 8-9% wash, well done

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by rubberduck71 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:42 pm

Clamsmasha wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:03 am
26kg of cracked corn milled fine.

I poured in 90* water and insulated... I let it sit for 3 days. Then I sparked up my boiler and drove steam into it for several hours. It amazes me how much you have to punish this stuff to get anywhere near gelatinisation.
Realize it may add significant time to fermentation, but isn't the point of this yeast that you're able to skip the gelatinazation process?
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Clamsmasha » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:49 pm

rubberduck71 wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:42 pm
Clamsmasha wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:03 am
26kg of cracked corn milled fine.

I poured in 90* water and insulated... I let it sit for 3 days. Then I sparked up my boiler and drove steam into it for several hours. It amazes me how much you have to punish this stuff to get anywhere near gelatinisation.
Realize it may add significant time to fermentation, but isn't the point of this yeast that you're able to skip the gelatinazation process?
I haven't found that to be the case with corn. I've failed a couple of times with uncooked corn. I consider Angel an insurance policy now,.....given enough time, the Rhizo cleans up what I couldn't gelatinise.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by rubberduck71 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:14 pm

Clamsmasha wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:49 pm
rubberduck71 wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:42 pm
Clamsmasha wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:03 am
26kg of cracked corn milled fine.

I poured in 90* water and insulated... I let it sit for 3 days. Then I sparked up my boiler and drove steam into it for several hours. It amazes me how much you have to punish this stuff to get anywhere near gelatinisation.
Realize it may add significant time to fermentation, but isn't the point of this yeast that you're able to skip the gelatinazation process?
I haven't found that to be the case with corn. I've failed a couple of times with uncooked corn. I consider Angel an insurance policy now,.....given enough time, the Rhizo cleans up what I couldn't gelatinise.
Gotcha. If anything else, you bullet-proofed the overall efficiency.

I have 2x25L/6 gal batches of rolled oats/honey/6 row barley going w/ angel yeast. Likely will be stripping one batch & adding it to the wash of the other & running through my newly arrived digiboil with pot still attachment (after vinegar & sacrificial runs).

Very excited!
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by JBs » Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:35 am

Jesse just posted a video of it on Still It, its worth watching as well.

[utube][/utube]

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by SassyFrass » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:47 pm

Definitely something I want to try. Subscribed...
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Teddysad » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:59 pm

Great to see all the interest my original posts have created and thanks to Jesse for his work
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by MartinCash » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:41 pm

On, no, I guess we can expect a run on Angel Yeast... :lol:
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Clamsmasha » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:47 pm

MartinCash wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:41 pm
On, no, I guess we can expect a run on Angel Yeast... :lol:
Haha yep. Hopefully someone will stockpile and sell out of Aus without gouging.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:24 pm

Clamsmasha wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:47 pm
MartinCash wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:41 pm
On, no, I guess we can expect a run on Angel Yeast... :lol:
Haha yep. Hopefully someone will stockpile and sell out of Aus without gouging.
I can buy Angel yeast in several local shops at a keen price if I want to make bread or UJSSM, but I've not found a seller for Angel Starter of Liquor Making in NZ, so I import mine online. Don't confuse them, they are very different.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Clamsmasha » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:25 pm

NZChris wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:24 pm
Clamsmasha wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:47 pm
MartinCash wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:41 pm
On, no, I guess we can expect a run on Angel Yeast... :lol:
Haha yep. Hopefully someone will stockpile and sell out of Aus without gouging.
I can buy Angel yeast in several local shops at a keen price if I want to make bread or UJSSM, but I've not found a seller for Angel Starter of Liquor Making in NZ, so I import mine online. Don't confuse them, they are very different.
The YT comments are filling up with dudes who bought Angel leaven.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Teddysad » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:56 pm

NZChris wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:24 pm
Clamsmasha wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:47 pm
MartinCash wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:41 pm
On, no, I guess we can expect a run on Angel Yeast... :lol:
Haha yep. Hopefully someone will stockpile and sell out of Aus without gouging.
I can buy Angel yeast in several local shops at a keen price if I want to make bread or UJSSM, but I've not found a seller for Angel Starter of Liquor Making in NZ, so I import mine online. Don't confuse them, they are very different.
Look at the source in Jesses comments
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:01 pm

Teddysad wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:56 pm
Look at the source in Jesses comments
I was too Youtube illiterate to be able find that :D

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Teddysad » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:35 pm

PM sent
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:26 pm

Thanks, Teddy.

Using Jessie's abv results, I deduce that he got his best conversion rate using 85C water.

My latest had hot UJSSM backset and 85C water dumped onto pre-used UJSSM grains and added rolled barley. I've been away for a few days and it's now day 17 and there is no smell from the can, so I assume it's dead, but I won't investigate until I'm ready to strip.

Reviewing my Jasmine rice run, the equivalent of Jessie's hot water on rice run, and I'm not impressed. I didn't try to cut 'on the fly' as Jessie did, and suspect I probably included more rice flavoured distillate than he did, but it's not that flash. The cut jars that smelled nicely of rice added little when added to the obvious hearts. If anything, they added more tails than rice.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Probus » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:44 pm

I am very interested in the results of your spent UJSSM run NZC. Angel Yeast Starter worked well for me on rolled barley (my first AG mash). Will soon have multiple generations of UJSSM corn and Odin's Rye Bread residue to be gainfully employed. Could combine as you did with rolled barley. Looking forward to your results.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Clamsmasha » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:20 am

Probus wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:44 pm
I am very interested in the results of your spent UJSSM run NZC. Angel Yeast Starter worked well for me on rolled barley (my first AG mash). Will soon have multiple generations of UJSSM corn and Odin's Rye Bread residue to be gainfully employed. Could combine as you did with rolled barley. Looking forward to your results.
Of all the things I’ve made with Angel, rolled barley, unmilled was legit amazing. I wish I made 5x the amount. I’ve just emptied out all my fermenters so that’ll be next.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Teddysad » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:59 pm

https://youtube.com/shorts/oodGSqxQUvw.
Cracked corn in hot water for 90 mins, cooled to 35 then Angel Yellow added. 12 hours later:
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by chickenfeed » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:00 pm

I havesome on the way. I understand that you need the yellow label one. Going to try rice and corn side by side

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:27 pm

I've got a bunch of Sweetfeed. The stuff is notorious for not being able to grind due to the molasses. I wonder how it would do if I took boiler water and let it sit for hours in a insulated cooler until it dropped to 90.

Thoughts?

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