No Mash No sugar

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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42shine
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by 42shine »

One thing I've found with this yeast is the importance of mixing the mash vigorously, a couple of times a day, especially in the first few days. The one fermentation that got stuck for me was where I forgot about it.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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I would say give it a gentle stir, very gentle, after the first days and when it has started vigorous fermentation.
It needs oxygen to propagate, no oxygen in the fermentation (alcohol making) stage.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

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I am so interested in this thread and awaiting feedback on the quality of the end product.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Beerswimmer »

Stripped the last of 3 batches, now smelling better and covered in a furry pellicle. Smelled a little sweet and fruity, suuuuuper sour. Strip smelled sour. Planning on doing the spirit run Friday with the low wines proofed down to 40% with this backset.

After this I'm doing rum, then will be using the Angel again for a 100% corn whiskey.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Beerswimmer wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:34 pm After this I'm doing rum, then will be using the Angel again for a 100% corn whiskey.
Made 100% Angie corn twice (both sweet and sour mash after). Well, they get along with gator skin burnt staves inside since May-2019 and gotta say they are rather mild but empty-ish. Supposed to be the light components to the blend with rye (where it's "overrye'd").

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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Beerswimmer wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:41 am I had a bag with about 10lbs of seashells in each. I'll add some more yeast while I wait.
10lb ??? That's way over the top. You would have to watch that the pH didn't get over 7 and pull the bag well before then.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Beerswimmer wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:34 pmPlanning on doing the spirit run Friday with the low wines proofed down to 40% with this backset.
Diluting low wines to get below 40% is a trick I use for making neutral.

For flavored products, running until the low wines collection doesn't need diluting is common practice in industry for good reasons. I often run mine down to 27-30% abv by running with the hydrometer in the collection vessel and I will be doing that when I get around to trying this yeast out, (I've been a bit lazy lately, but I have the corn now).

I'm looking forward to hearing your results.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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NZChris wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:07 pm

running with the hydrometer in the collection vessel
I would, but I collect strips into glass carboys with the small opening. I do collect past the cloudy and oily tails, I'll check the % before I run them. I saved 6 or so gallons of backset because my particular setup(2 15 gallon kegs, one is a thumper) likes to run the kettle dry, so a little past the halfway point I refill/top-off the kettle with backset(for flavor during spirit runs, more wash during strips).

I have more Angel yeast on it's way, just hit the US yesterday! I need to go to the feed store and load up on some oats!
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Spirit run all day today. Tastes fine, no real difference between bread yeast that I can tell from my samples :thumbup:

I'm glad, in a way, that I have so much time on my hands and so much grain in my shed.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Proofed it down to 55% and put it into a barel in my hot garage that gets huge temp changes every day. I'll check on it in 6 months to see how it's going. The barrel held bourbon, then maple syrup. I proofed it down to 55% to see if I can get some sweetness from the barrel to come through.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Beerswimmer wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:33 am Spirit run all day today. Tastes fine, no real difference between bread yeast that I can tell from my samples :thumbup:

I'm glad, in a way, that I have so much time on my hands and so much grain in my shed.
Are you sure that you're using the same Angel starter and in the same way that Teddy is talking about in this thread? There should be a huge difference between the results of using bread yeast and Angel Starter of Liquor-making unless you have already converted the starch by mashing.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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I've just pitched this starter into a mash of Auzzie corn flour the consistency of mashed potato that needed an athlete to stir it and it thinned to cream in seven minutes.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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NZChris wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:48 pm
Are you sure that you're using the same Angel starter and in the same way that Teddy is talking about in this thread? There should be a huge difference between the results of using bread yeast and Angel Starter of Liquor-making unless you have already converted the starch by mashing.
Yep. Same yeast pitched onto raw cracked corn. This batch was 1/3 bread yeast low wines and 2/3 Angel low wines. I couldn't tell anything too different about the final spirit. My next batch will be made with 100% Angel yeast, but will pour some boiling water onto the grains I use to kill as much lacto as possible.

What unique flavors are you detecting from the Angel yeast?
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Sticking my nose in the bag, there is a smell that I recognise from many years ago, but I haven't worked out what it is yet.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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NZChris wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:35 pm Sticking my nose in the bag, there is a smell that I recognise from many years ago, but I haven't worked out what it is yet.
Sweaty panties?
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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I get an almost Vegemite smell from the yeast, but it doesn't smell or taste like it in the spirit.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Teddysad »

I got donated a 20kg bag of kibbled rye, which had acquired a few little passengers. Donor did not want to bake with it, but it still seems very viable (the bugs float off in water)
I am now running a George Washington Rye test 65/30/5 Rye / corn/barley.
Doing 2 x batches with the Angel Liquor yeast and also 2 using the liquid enzymes

Should be an interesting test.
While I have heaps of sugar supplies I don't mind an AG run now
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Teddysad wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:38 pm
NZChris wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:35 pm Sticking my nose in the bag, there is a smell that I recognise from many years ago, but I haven't worked out what it is yet.
Sweaty panties?
Nah, but I get that from the washed rind cheese I'm aging now :D
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris »

The starch test is negative and the SG went from 1041 to 1017 in the last 17 hours, so it's looking good so far.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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NZChris wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:47 pm The starch test is negative and the SG went from 1041 to 1017 in the last 17 hours, so it's looking good so far.
How did you measure the starting gravity? I didn't because I expected it be zero since there's noting to measure at first and that it would be a moving target until it finally stops.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Beerswimmer wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:33 pmHow did you measure the starting gravity? I didn't because I expected it be zero since there's noting to measure at first and that it would be a moving target until it finally stops.
I didn't. 1041 was 26 hours after pitching.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Beerswimmer »

Ahhh, of course. I'll do that next time.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris »

Next time I'll try getting SG close to the start and every time I stir it. Going by the instructions, the coarseness of the grind makes a difference, so it might be different for every product I try.

1002 this morning, day 3, and it looks dead, so I'll leave it alone for a few days. No unusual smells yet.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Experimenting with Jasmine rice now, 1kg in 6l of 98C water. SG 1062 13 hours after pitching. I'm very happy with that.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Nice, what's the grain to water ratio?
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Re: No Mash No sugar

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NZChris wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:06 pm Nah, but I get that from the washed rind cheese I'm aging now :D
Hehe, we have aged a lot of the cheese like that. So, some toe candidiasis and ammonia + wet mushroom/nutty undergrowth? :mrgreen:

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Re: No Mash No sugar

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Ammonia only if stuff it up and let it go too far. It's not a smell I want in my cheese or my dunder pit. The other odours I'm getting in my cheese 'cave' and I'm really looking forward to enjoying the results of my summer efforts in a month or two. :D

I haven't noticed anything special in the rice and corn experiments I'm doing, only in the bag of starter and I'm still not sure what it reminds me of. I'm thinking maybe it's a memory from my Grandmother's kitchen sixty years ago. I get closer to working it out every time I open the bag and hope that eventually enough of my remaining neurons will connect and give me the answer.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by VLAGAVULVIN »

I see. Well, wishing all the good luck to you with your cheesy efforts then :) My Missus has just said that the brevibacterium geotrichum candidum (and long aging) causes the most of ammonia...

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris »

Something I hadn't thought of until today was watching the refractive index for change. I only have a Brix refractometer, but it does give numbers that can be recorded for future reference, or cross referenced if I wanted.

I'm pretty sure that there is not much sugar in these experiments as, by now, the yeast will be scoffing it as it is converted, so it might be possible to get a good idea of the abv and how well the ferment is going using a cheap 0~80% alcohol refractometer.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris »

My rice experiment looks dead and finished at SG 994 and a refractive index that indicates 10.8% abv, well above my estimate.

The kibbled corn is still visibly active on day six. The SG is 998 and hasn't changed for four days, but the refractive index is still rising and is indicating 9.6% abv. My target abv was 8% for both.
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