No Mash No sugar

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Beerswimmer
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Beerswimmer » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:12 am

Chauncey wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:31 pm
if it makes a smooth heavy corn im so about it.
It will. And it's so easy. Just add corn and water to your fermenter and pitch yeast.
Ut Alii Vivant!!!!

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by TheJollyBrewer » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:11 am

Last Thursday I mashed in corn whiskey mash. 6kg flaked corn. 1/3kg dextrin malt (just because I had some) and 500g German rye bread. Mixed it with 30 litres of boiling water and left it overnght to cool. Added yeast at 9.30 am the next day (50g) and it was starting to ferment about 90 mins later. Mash was starting to taste sweet too.

On Saturday Morning I mixed 4kg of broken basmati with 20 litres of boiling water and left to cool. Pitched with 20g angle malt. Same result, took off almost imediately.

Now it's Monday morning and the corn seems to have pretty much finished, just a low bubbling. Rice still going for it.

Both very much smell good and clean, they smell like their ingredients. No off smells or acidity at this stage.

Quite excited by this.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:59 pm

NZChris wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:51 pm
Whatever VOC it is that is making my bourbon grain bill smell like shit isn't being converted, by the acids I'm adding, into an ester that doesn't smell like shit. :oops:
The buffering ability of this wash is amazing. I've given up using H2SO4 because I've used far more than I would ever use for this sized rum ferment already, (this isn't rum), and the laws have changed so that I can't pop down to the shop and buy some more if I run out. I've been putting lemon juice in it every day for several days and it's still bouncing back up to around pH 5 and still smells like shit.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by HomerD » Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:19 am

Had a lot of Aspergillus growing on top of the 100% corn mash.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by jonnys_spirit » Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:34 am

That looks like a lacto infection not Aspergillus.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by HomerD » Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:52 am

jonnys_spirit wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:34 am
That looks like a lacto infection not Aspergillus.

Cheers,
jonny
It may be. I’m used to seeing it on agar plates, not on mash. It has a great smell! It almost has a grape smell, like Pseudomonas.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:33 pm

I'm going to have to call my bourbon bill a failure. My shed smelled like shit for most of the ferment, low abv wash and I'm struggling to find a cut worth aging.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:45 pm

I never did manage to select a cut worth aging, so it will be tidied up with the Bokakob to use for gin.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Saltbush Bill » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:19 pm

Stripped a batch of this yesterday.
Despite the gawd aweful smell while it fermented the low wines smell excellent.
Stripped it using my plated column as that was already sitting on the boiler with two plates in it.
Half way through the strip run I gave it a bit of reflux and let the plates load. Pulled a small jar off as a sample of what I might end up with. What I smelled and tasted from that small jar has changed my mind about this stuff.
Plan at this stage is to put down another ferment, when its done, load it and the low wines from last ferment to the boiler and run through 2-3 plates.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by MartinCash » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:10 pm

Saltbush Bill wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:19 pm
Despite the gawd aweful smell while it fermented the low wines smell excellent.
...
What I smelled and tasted from that small jar has changed my mind about this stuff.
My 2x500g packs arrived yesterday, just in time, as I just have one more strip and then the spirit run on 35L of your all-molasses rum low wines, and then I'm turning to whiskeys for a bit.

I'm stocked up with corn, wheat, barley, oats, rye and various malts to have some test runs. At this stage I'm planning to ferment on the grain.
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by rubberduck71 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:04 pm

My shipment doesn't arrive until early Oct, so please keep us updated on tips & tricks for this yeast! :ebiggrin:
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by HomerD » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:32 pm

What kind of efficiency numbers is everyone getting?

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:45 pm

The only one I've calculated is Jasmine rice, 440ml of heart cut at 40% per kg.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:04 pm

Maize flour, 400ml of heart cut at 40% per kg.

Kibbled maize, 284ml of heart cut at 40% per kg.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by HomerD » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:30 am

Thanks. I have some Jasmine rice that I have been waiting to try.

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mash steam cooker head, 5.5 kW element with SCR controller
All modular

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Demy » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:09 am

I re-open this discussion a bit to ask your conclusions on this yeast. Does it yield like a traditional wort? I bought it a long time ago before this post and fermented a small amount of wheat flour and it looks like it leads to full fermentation. Now I have a few kg of flour that I have not used for a long time and I would like to try to make something using this yeast. I had also contacted the company (e-mail) for some info. Thanks to all who want to answer.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Saltbush Bill » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:41 am

Ok here are some numbers from what Ive tried so far.
Ive never done AG or used this type of yeast before so no idea what I should have got or expected to get.
From 40 Kg of unmalted Barley I got.
0.3L @ 89% of Fores
4.8L @ 88% of Hearts , or what I chose as hearts.
1.9L @ 86% of Combined feints.
Notes.
Wouldn't place to much faith in those numbers for the following reasons.
1 Used a new still that Ive only run twice before
2 Ive never made cuts on AG before..it all seemed smoother than normal so maybe I was pretty loose with the heart cut.
3 this was done on 3 plates..in the past Ive always used 4 plates.
4 Heads and tails where combined into one Demi before I thought to take an ABV or measure the amount, hence combined amount and ABV
5 this was run done with the combined low wines from one 20 KG barley ferment and the wash from another 20Kg of barley as the boiler charge.
From memory I milked some of the fores off when I stripped the low wines, so not all of the fores produced might be accounted for.
Been pressed for time since running this so its been sitting at 88% in a demijohn, cut it with water today.....and made a few different versions, 2L White Dog @ 42%
2 L @ 62% with some Toasted American Oak supplied by another distiller who works in the wine industry.
2L @ 62% on Med Toast American Oak Still Dragon Dominos.
Still some left at 88% to play with at a later date.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Demy » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:18 am

Saltbush Bill wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:41 am
Ok here are some numbers from what Ive tried so far.
Ive never done AG or used this type of yeast before so no idea what I should have got or expected to get.
From 40 Kg of unmalted Barley I got.
0.3L @ 89% of Fores
4.8L @ 88% of Hearts , or what I chose as hearts.
1.9L @ 86% of Combined feints.
Notes.
Wouldn't place to much faith in those numbers for the following reasons.
1 Used a new still that Ive only run twice before
2 Ive never made cuts on AG before..it all seemed smoother than normal so maybe I was pretty loose with the heart cut.
3 this was done on 3 plates..in the past Ive always used 4 plates.
4 Heads and tails where combined into one Demi before I thought to take an ABV or measure the amount, hence combined amount and ABV
5 this was run done with the combined low wines from one 20 KG barley ferment and the wash from another 20Kg of barley as the boiler charge.
From memory I milked some of the fores off when I stripped the low wines, so not all of the fores produced might be accounted for.
Been pressed for time since running this so its been sitting at 88% in a demijohn, cut it with water today.....and made a few different versions, 2L White Dog @ 42%
2 L @ 62% with some Toasted American Oak supplied by another distiller who works in the wine industry.
2L @ 62% on Med Toast American Oak Still Dragon Dominos.
Still some left at 88% to play with at a later date.
Thanks a lot for the report. I operate on a small scale, so I thought I'd do a little test side by side. I will try to ferment about 2kg of wheat flour only with this yeast and then I will try to make the same amount with a mash but I will have to take into account any added malt since I never use synthetic enzymes. Then then I'll see how much alcohol I can get from both of them.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by DSmith78 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:55 am

Just ordered a kg of this from Aliexpress. Due end of October....
There are three types of people in this world - those who can do maths and those who cannot.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Demy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:42 am

DSmith78 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:55 am
Just ordered a kg of this from Aliexpress. Due end of October....
Yes, it is quite cheap. It is curious, but in different packages I have seen slightly different ingredients .....

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by DSmith78 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:44 am

Demy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:42 am
DSmith78 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:55 am
Just ordered a kg of this from Aliexpress. Due end of October....
Yes, it is quite cheap. It is curious, but in different packages I have seen slightly different ingredients .....
I ordered the same one shown at the beginning of this thread. Fingers crossed!
There are three types of people in this world - those who can do maths and those who cannot.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Demy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:26 pm

DSmith78 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:44 am
Demy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:42 am
DSmith78 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:55 am
Just ordered a kg of this from Aliexpress. Due end of October....
Yes, it is quite cheap. It is curious, but in different packages I have seen slightly different ingredients .....
I ordered the same one shown at the beginning of this thread. Fingers crossed!
Yes, I also have the one in the post, on aliexpress the same packages have a slight difference but it will be great anyway. I am trying to test this yeast.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by MartinCash » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:01 pm

The one that has diastatic activity and will convert starch is the one labelled "Spirit of Liquor Making"
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Demy » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:31 am

MartinCash wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:01 pm
The one that has diastatic activity and will convert starch is the one labelled "Spirit of Liquor Making"
Exactly, I know the type but in my package I found some variations of ingredients that are not in the description of other packages.
20200922_111056.jpg
20200922_111148.jpg
I have seen some packages (on aliexpress) where some enzymes listed were missing (alpha-amylase, glucoamylase, phytase) now I have noticed an update and they have almost all of them. Typically yeast, rhizopus oryzae, sorbitan monostearate was read.

I found a page with the different description I mentioned earlier and I updated the post. yeast with fewer ingredients can be found here https://bit.ly/2FO5WLm look at the ingredients
tempsnip.png
Last edited by Demy on Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by NZChris » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:46 am

That is the same list of ingredients on my bag.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by jonnys_spirit » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:47 am

The culture rhizopus oryzae produces those enzymes listed but maybe they developed the formulation slightly or just changed the label with some additional info.

Cheers!
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water into whiskey into water
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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Demy » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:05 am

jonnys_spirit wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:47 am
The culture rhizopus oryzae produces those enzymes listed but maybe they developed the formulation slightly or just changed the label with some additional info.

Cheers!
-jonny
That's what I thought.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Clamsmasha » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:31 am

How have we been getting along with this stuff?

I Just got the first 500g with another 1.5kg inbound.

Pretty excited as I’ve been playing around with some yeast balls on small batches of uncooked/cooked grain. This rhizopus is amazing stuff! It turned a jar of raw pearl barley to milk in a couple of days.

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by Demy » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:55 am

Clamsmasha wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:31 am
How have we been getting along with this stuff?

I Just got the first 500g with another 1.5kg inbound.

Pretty excited as I’ve been playing around with some yeast balls on small batches of uncooked/cooked grain. This rhizopus is amazing stuff! It turned a jar of raw pearl barley to milk in a couple of days.
I'm doing some testing with wheat flour that I have had in the house for too long. Without cooking I didn't like it very much. I made an "alternative and different" use of this yeast and I think I will make a separate post so as not to create confusion. look https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 83&t=80521

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Re: No Mash No sugar

Post by rubberduck71 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:04 pm

Woohoo! My shipment of 500g finally arrived!!!

Thinking of trying out SCD's CROW bourbon with a side-by-side 25L/6gal ferment of the "standard way" versus another with this yeast.

Also want to try a batch of rice wine. I have a 25 lb bag of Kokuho Rose yelling at me to be cracked open...

How's everyone else been running with this stuff so far?

Also, we're coming up on that 6 month mark for Beerswimmer's batch! Please let us know!!!
Beerswimmer wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:32 pm
Proofed it down to 55% and put it into a barel in my hot garage that gets huge temp changes every day. I'll check on it in 6 months to see how it's going. The barrel held bourbon, then maple syrup. I proofed it down to 55% to see if I can get some sweetness from the barrel to come through.

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