PH Trial with two washes

[artooks]

Hi Everyone,

I did an experiment to see what is happening with or without PH buffer in a neutral sugar wash with Kellogs Special K flakes , which does not call for any kind of PH buffering and I did find interesting results, that I wanted to share, first of all I would like to mention that I have a Milwaukee MW102 PH Meter and did all my calibrations with the instrument, I did calibrate it prior measuring all the samples.

Starting with my tab water, I use filtered water in my washes and measuring my tab water revealed that it has 6.30 PH which is slightly on the acidic side.

In this trial I started two same neutral washes at the same time.

The starting OG for both of them is 1.080 and the fermentation temperature is 86°F
(30°C) I did use sea shells in on of them and nothing on the other ferment, they both went dry in 8 days to 0.990.

Checking their PH levels, the first wash that I used with sea shells showed a PH level of 4.25

The other wash that I did not use any PH buffering showed 3.50

So at the end of this trial my findings are regardless of using PH buffering both ferments finish dry in 8 days from 1.080 to 0.990 but their end PH result is
different, the wash that I did not use any kind of PH buffering also went dry and did not crash, of course there are many variables to consider, hardness of water and the main composition of water, the trace minerals that it contains, I do not know that, But what I remember is at the time, when I started to do sugar washes one time I did not use a PH buffer and that time the PH went even below to 3.08 and my ferment was stuck at 1.020, so there is a difference in sugar washes with flakes and this was mentioned in many threads that they have a buffering capacity so this is probably it, because in a normal sugar wash without flakes I am surely destined to crash so from what I see the flakes keep the PH at 3.50 and still not crash, so the difference between the two washes in terms of PH is 0.75 which means the wash without the PH buffering is almost 7.5 times more acidic, since both of them finished with different PH results does this PH difference translate into a taste difference in the end product that I do not know, Just wanted to share my experience.

[bluefish_dist]

Nice test. It does show that shells do offer protection from ph crash for a small wash.

Try adjusting ph down to the 5.2-5.4 range for pitch. I found that really helped my washes finish on big fermentations. I am a big believer that ph is important to getting a good fermentation.

[artooks]

Hi Everyone

Today I finished another All Bran Wash With shells that are added on day 3 and my final wash PH is 4.69 which is an acceptable level
here are some pictures, also I used 3 shells with an overall weight of 146 grams (5.15 Ounce ) and the final weight is 102 grams (3.6 Ounce ) so overall in a 8 Gallon Batch the shells use 44 grams (1.55 Ounce ) This proves that sea shells are doing a hell of a Job.

[frunobulax]

If I make a sugar wash, I know it's gonna crash, because I have super soft water (I have the same PH meter)
I add a table spoon, (about 3 grams), of pickling lime/Calcium hydroxide, right from the beginning.
Unlike oyster shells, the results are immediate.

[artooks]

If I make a sugar wash, I know it's gonna crash, because I have super soft water (I have the same PH meter)
I add a table spoon, (about 3 grams), of pickling lime/Calcium hydroxide, right from the beginning.
Unlike oyster shells, the results are immediate.

You are absolutely right, it works instantly but at the same time Calcium Hydroxide is a hazardous substance, which you need to wear protective eyewear it is so tricky that even if you come in contact with it you do not realize is straight away until the damage is obvious so, I find it much more safe to use sea shells.

[shadylane]

Another advantage to shells, is the beginning pH doesn't have to be measured or even known.
The dosage is self regulating. The shells will only dissolve as needed.

[artooks]

Another advantage to shells, is the beginning pH doesn't have to be measured or even known.
The dosage is self regulating. The shells will only dissolve as needed.

Exactly Shadylane, it might start slowly to dissolve at the beginning, but overall it keeps the PH within acceptable range, 4.5-5 which is what we want.
Shells are my favorite.
I am also inclined to use marble block but I am not sure whether there might be some impurities which would not work very well or could alter the taste I do not know, I am happy with my shells.

[bluefish_dist]

Another advantage to shells, is the beginning pH doesn't have to be measured or even known.
The dosage is self regulating. The shells will only dissolve as needed.

Exactly Shadylane, it might start slowly to dissolve at the beginning, but overall it keeps the PH within acceptable range, 4.5-5 which is what we want.
Shells are my favorite.

Don’t be so sure of that range. Read some of Odins writing. I think from what he has said around 4 is better for flavor. I had one wash get infected when it didn’t drop below 4.5 in the first 24 hrs. So after that I aimed for 4 to 4.3 after the first 24 hrs.

[artooks]

Another advantage to shells, is the beginning pH doesn't have to be measured or even known.
The dosage is self regulating. The shells will only dissolve as needed.

Exactly Shadylane, it might start slowly to dissolve at the beginning, but overall it keeps the PH within acceptable range, 4.5-5 which is what we want.
Shells are my favorite.

Don’t be so sure of that range. Read some of Odins writing. I think from what he has said around 4 is better for flavor. I had one wash get infected when it didn’t drop below 4.5 in the first 24 hrs. So after that I aimed for 4 to 4.3 after the first 24 hrs.

So Are you trying to say that, leave the wash for 1-2 days and after introduce the shells, so by this time it will reach the necessary range of 4 but this can only be achieved with trial and error I guess, or with powdered calcium carbonate

[NZChris]

Decide what pH you need for the product you are making, high to keep bacteria happy to create hogo for high ester rum, low to inhibit bacteria when making neutral, (and everything else in between those extremes), then do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Powdered calcium carbonate is way down my list of preferred chemicals for adjusting pH, but it will work if that's all you've got and you are careful.

[artooks]

Decide what pH you need for the product you are making, high to keep bacteria happy to create hogo for high ester rum, low to inhibit bacteria when making neutral, (and everything else in between those extremes), then do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Powdered calcium carbonate is way down my list of preferred chemicals for adjusting pH, but it will work if that's all you've got and you are careful.

Hi NZChris, I usually make neutral for gin so I need to keep it low as you said I usually introduce add the sea shells upfront, but last time I introduce them at day 3 It worked also, as far as I remember you usually put sea shells upfront, the beauty of sea shells is they self regulate which is a plus 1 for me. Just wondered I usually try to find White Sea shells they are hard to get by, for example here in Istanbul Turkey I can get black ones I have never tried those but do you think that they also work as well.

[NZChris]

The color of the shell makes no difference. Oyster shells often have some black in them. You can use a block of marble of any color if that is what you have.