Volume question

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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nesster71
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Volume question

Post by nesster71 »

I have been playing around with rye lately. I have been getting a fantastic tasting product, but not the volume I expected. last night I ran 6 gallons of off-grain 95% malted rye and 5% malt. I got about 1.5 quarts of hearts and then cloudy tails. Is this a normal return for rye or do I need to look at a different yeast? Thanks for any and all help.
NormandieStill
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Re: Volume question

Post by NormandieStill »

I think more information might be useful to help answer this. How much grain in your 6 gallons? What are your OG and FG? What type of still?
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nesster71
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Re: Volume question

Post by nesster71 »

Thanks. I used 10# of rye and about a pound of malt. Just a basic copper pot still (12 gallon) with a thumper.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Volume question

Post by still_stirrin »

Nesster,

Ten to 11 lb. of grain should get you to 1.052 to 1.056 depending on how long you let it convert. With a 1.056 OG, your “potential alcohol” is roughly 7.25%ABV, or about 7.25/100 x 6 = 0.44 gallons at 100%ABV (theoretical, but not practically possible).

So, if your average offstill is 40%ABV (possible with a single pass through a potstill), you would theoretically have 0.44 / 0.40 = 1.1 gallons of 40% ABV. And that assumes you “get it all” and don’t stop short, leaving some of the alcohol in the boiler.

Now, depending on how good you are with your cuts, you could get as much as 1/2 of the collection as “hearts”, less if you’re sloppy. So, you could (theoretically) have 0.55 gallons, or a little over 2 quarts US.

If you got less, then you may have not had good conversion. Or you might have stopped early and left some alcohol in the boiler. And finally, if you made crappy cuts, your hearts might be less than calculated.

Feel better now?
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NormandieStill
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Re: Volume question

Post by NormandieStill »

OK. So based on an online brewing calculator, and assuming that your malt successfully converted all your sugars from the rye, your estimated OG would be 1.052 giving you around 5% abv in your wash. Which seems reasonable.

In my three runs to date (2 brandies and a neutral, all stripped and then spirit run) I seem to have got around 3-4% volume of final product versus volume of original wash. You seem to have a little more than that so perhaps not so bad for a single run pot still. How are you making your cuts?

I must confess that I was somewhat shocked starting out at how "little" product you get for the volume that you start with. I remember when I was still reading up, having not understood about cuts and assuming that you just collected product until you reached the abv you were looking for. I seem to recall reading somewhere about a yield of 25-33% of the output from a spirit run being hearts which again seems to fit with the 3-4% of the total wash volume.

Hopefully someone with more experience than I will be able to weigh in here, but I'd say that your yield seems entirely reasonable.

edit to add: someone with more experience than I weighed in. On the bright side we don't seem to have disagreed too much so that's something! :-)
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nesster71
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Re: Volume question

Post by nesster71 »

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was thinking my yeast stopped early. It bubbled hard for 2 days, then slowed down to about every 15-20 seconds, then the next day nothing. The mash was bitter and I could taste alcohol in it. I just figured maybe it ferments faster off grain? (First time trying this). I was doing a stripping run so the only cut I made was tossing the heads when it first started running. I ran it until the tails were less than 30% ABV. Guess I'm just assuming I didn't leave much in the boiler.
StillerBoy
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Re: Volume question

Post by StillerBoy »

nesster71 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:57 pm It bubbled hard for 2 days, then slowed down to about every 15-20 seconds, then the next day nothing. The mash was bitter and I could taste alcohol in it. I just figured maybe it ferments faster off grain? (First time trying this).
Relying on an air lock to gauge if a fermentation is done or not, is not the way to check for a finished ferment..

Shine a small pen LED light across the top of the ferment, and if you see small beads like rolling, then it is not finished.. when it's finish, there will be hardly any, and a check using a hydrometer will tell you it's done..

As the volume able to harvest from a mash, only the yeast will be able to tell yeast you what they were able to convert as explain by ss..

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NormandieStill
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Re: Volume question

Post by NormandieStill »

If you don't already have a hydrometer, you should get one. You measure your gravity before pitching the yeast, and you measure again when it's finished fermenting. If you're not sure that it's finished, leave it 48hrs and measure again. If the reading is the same (give or take a little error) then the yeast is done. If it's still changing, you need to wait another 48hrs.

After you've done the same mash, to the same recipe, fermented at the same temperature a few times, you'll have an idea of how long it takes and should be able to gauge it without the hydrometer, but to measure is to know.
nesster71 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:57 pm I was doing a stripping run so the only cut I made was tossing the heads when it first started running. I ran it until the tails were less than 30% ABV. Guess I'm just assuming I didn't leave much in the boiler.
I think you're confusing some terms here. I'm guessing that what you chucked was foreshots, not heads. (How much did you chuck?) Did you run until what was coming off the spout was 30%, or until the accumulated low wines were 30%? For whiskys you might want to run deeper into the tails to find some interesting flavours. ss showed some of the maths needed to work out total alcohol in the wash which would allow you to see what's left post run. But you really need to know the abv of your wash, and for that you need to be recording OG and FG.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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